{"items": [{"author": "John", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/100633726263571579985", "anchor": "gp-1317309874341", "service": "gp", "text": "I've been reading a few articles that illustrate how the use of Khan Academy has been incredibly helpful to kids in school by allowing the slow and the fast students to enrich what they are learning and cause more classroom time to be spent in learning how to problem solve with help from the teacher instead of just hearing lectures.\n
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\nI remember one of my Physics classes at MIT where the lecturer was essentially reading us from his book.", "timestamp": 1317309874}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/103013777355236494008", "anchor": "gp-1317311429257", "service": "gp", "text": "@John\n your point about khan academy reminds me that the structure has to come from somewhere, but not necessarily the same online source", "timestamp": 1317311429}, {"author": "Peter", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/103618186481362054522", "anchor": "gp-1317313790019", "service": "gp", "text": "Part of the value of the education process is the conveying of the degree and standards required to earn it. Employers, other educational institutions, and even government use these degrees to determine whether someone is qualified for a job, educational program, etc. The value of a degree is dependent upon the reputation of the institution which awarded it, and many, but not all, institutions go to a great deal of effort to protect their reputations. The value of these degrees give people a great incentive to cheat in various ways and I think on-line education raises the likelihood of cheating. I think for institutions to award high-reputation degrees based on exclusive or mostly on-line education will require a mechanism to prevent such cheating. Here's an idea--perhaps there will be sites where one can go to take a final. The site guarantees the tester has presented trustworthy identification (maybe even biometrics), has brought in only approved materials, has used a computer provided by the tester known to have no unapproved resources, and has logged into the educational institution (which provides the on-line final) using credentials matching his identification. Unfortunately, these and other precautions against cheating aren't free, but they should still be cheaper than much education is today.", "timestamp": 1317313790}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/103013777355236494008", "anchor": "gp-1317315963697", "service": "gp", "text": "@Peter\n I think the problem you're describing comes down to \"how do we determine whether a person is capable of or prepared for a given task?\". The task might be \"complete graduate school in social work\" or \"represent clients in immigration proceedings\". Normally we don't just use one source, but combine many. There are very few (if any) things you can definitely do with a college degree and definitely can't do without, primarily because it's a good indicator but not a perfect one. Would a finals site be a better predictor of future success? Are there other things that might do even better?\n
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\nI'll also note that this is a different but related question to the learning one. Machine learning is something I would have many uses for in my job. I took a computer science class on it in college, but didn't learn so much about how to apply it. So I care whether at the end of this class I'll be able to solve problems better than before. I'm not intending to use this as a credential; I intend to gain an understanding of the subject that can speak for itself in interviews and in coding.", "timestamp": 1317315963}, {"author": "Sean", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/107270646379592003271", "anchor": "gp-1317316439439", "service": "gp", "text": "There are efforts to create ways to verify that people have done learning or made accomplishments in ways that have real meaning, but without the reliance on the central authority. Khan Academy is a great example. \n
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\nThere is also Mozilla's Peer to Peer University: \nhttp://p2pu.org/en/\n
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\nThe department of education is partnering with Mozilla to work on that in a way that they can get behind: \nhttp://www.ed.gov/news/speeches/digital-badges-learning\n
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\nThen there are slightly less ambitious folks, like the Assistments team at WPI that is working on \n
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\nI think that we are well past time when we need to make learning much more flexible and much more focused on the student. I have known people, myself included, that even though they generally get good grades in schools, in order to really GET some concepts, it requires taking the same class over and over or taking different classes on the same subject. Our current educational environment makes no allowance for that, and I think in the long run that hurts us as a society. \n
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\nOn the flip side, and again, this happens to me frequently, there are the classes where you're required to stay in for a whole semester (college) or year (primary and secondary), when you already know the material. \n
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\nEducation needs to be at the pace of the student. We should be doing as much as we can to facilitate that.", "timestamp": 1317316439}, {"author": "Sean", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/107270646379592003271", "anchor": "gp-1317316593462", "service": "gp", "text": "I do think that structured learning IS important, though. Much more important early in life than later in life. Which is why I think combining as many \"learn at your own pace tools\" with an environment that says \"you have to spend at least x amount of time on these topics today\" would be a good thing. I think the structure should provide minimum amounts of effort on subjects, as well as making sure that students gain the social skills to work in the real world. That is to say, the social skills to effectively collaborate with other people.", "timestamp": 1317316593}, {"author": "John", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/100633726263571579985", "anchor": "gp-1317320425388", "service": "gp", "text": "I was thinking about my own educational experience. I went to a progressive private school (Dalton in NYC) where in 5-8th grade we got monthly assignments from each teacher, there was Lab time in the morning where you were free to go to any teacher's room and meet with other students or the teacher or just work. In 5th grade my Geography teacher emphasized doing research by reading and interviewing people and then reporting on it with reports or paper mach\u00e9 maps. I was a math and science whiz in High School which involved lots of independent work in sync with classroom work. At MIT I was a math major and went to Columbia as a Physics grad student. I took a computer programming course at Columbia and discovered that this was really fun. One more computer course and then I gave up my grad school and got a job as a computer programmer. I was so prepared to learn, plan my time, informally set goals, and do good work that I rapidly moved up to be a designer, a project leader, and manager - later corporate staff and a research staff member. I think it was the overall educational environment with structure and freedom and emphasis on learning how to learn that made it possible to have a successful career in something I had barely formally studied at all.", "timestamp": 1317320425}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/103013777355236494008", "anchor": "gp-1317321015525", "service": "gp", "text": "@John\n You hadn't formally studied programming, but had many other people?", "timestamp": 1317321015}, {"author": "John", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/100633726263571579985", "anchor": "gp-1317321969980", "service": "gp", "text": "It was 1961-62; few people studied programming in those days. I note that the first CS degree in the US was awarded in 1962 at Purdue. One of my classmates in the Columbia programming course (it was his first one too) was Joel Moses who went on to a great career at MIT including head of the EECS department.", "timestamp": 1317321969}]}