{"items": [{"author": "Hollis", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/669559630012?comment_id=669560897472", "anchor": "fb-669560897472", "service": "fb", "text": "Nice article, Jeff. I would encourage groups to look at boards with larger numbers of XLR inputs, but that's partly because I play in a sound-guy's-nightmare band. Frost and Fire's setup takes 13 XLRs and 1 or 2 TRS (piano), and while we're perfectly happy to play into a reduced channel board, it tends to make the sound guys really sad if they're trying to do anything clever with mixing.

That said, we're traveling with our own digital mixer these days, so that may be less of an issue overall.", "timestamp": "1406266126"}, {"author": "Kiran", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/669559630012?comment_id=669567154932", "anchor": "fb-669567154932", "service": "fb", "text": "The contra world is switching to iPad+Mackie DL1608 mixing, and I for one am entirely in favor of that: IMO the DL1608 is not just slightly but *far* easier to use than a typical small analog mixer, and the remote control options allow multiple people to mix and eliminate the need for a snake. Though it's considerably more expensive, it'll still be a reference system in 2017 and far beyond. It's almost criminally stupid to recommend anyone buy an analog mixer when they have a much better option.", "timestamp": "1406276687"}, {"author": "Danner", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/669559630012?comment_id=669574475262", "anchor": "fb-669574475262", "service": "fb", "text": "Really Kiran? You're going with \"criminally stupid\"?

Simplicity has its benefits, and I've watched too many beginners abuse the 1608 with overly harsh adjustments and setting fancy cutoffs then forgetting about them, reducing sound quality in really unpleasant ways, and imprecise mixing levels because the lack of detail on a touchpad.

It's fine for someone who knows their chops, but analog boards aren't \"criminally stupid\".", "timestamp": "1406290623"}, {"author": "Kiran", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/669559630012?comment_id=669574634942", "anchor": "fb-669574634942", "service": "fb", "text": "Analog boards are more confusing to most amateurs than this board would be, at least if you expect them to use the features, such as EQ. For example, how many people can figure out how the EQ knobs interact with each other, or where their center frequencies are, or how to understand logarithmic scales?

People are scared of the 1608, but Mackie has done an admirable job of making a huge amount of complexity trivially easy to use, and iOS provides a platform responsive enough to make it work. The 1608 is the *simpler* choice.

So yes, I think that telling dance groups strapped for cash (which almost all of them are) to spend money on technology that's already obsolete and harder to use is almost (because you're not really stealing from the poor, you're just persuading them to squander their funds) criminally stupid.", "timestamp": "1406290752"}, {"author": "Dereck", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/669559630012?comment_id=669577229742", "anchor": "fb-669577229742", "service": "fb", "text": "Analog boards by no way are obsolete or even soon to be obsolete. There are benifits to both kinds and it depends on the application to what is best. I think we will be seeing analog boards for a long time in contra. Btw, Jeff this is good!", "timestamp": "1406293720"}, {"author": "Bronwyn", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/669559630012?comment_id=669577873452", "anchor": "fb-669577873452", "service": "fb", "text": "Kiran \"at least if you expect them to use the features, such as EQ. For example\"
This is probably an ambitious expectation for many small/medium dances. We have 5 or 6 people who rotate through volunteering to do sound, because someone has to. Scarily, I'm considered an 'experienced' sound person, and sometimes asked to train others. I know nothing about sound, really, but have learned what connects to what. We mostly aim for getting everything hooked up and working, very very basic troubleshooting, and reasonable balance between the instruments. Would it be better if we had people who were more interested in and knowledgeable about sound? Yes. Do most of the dancers notice? No. I don't know if an analog board is simpler for people who basically just adjust levels, because I've never used anything else. But even if people are unjustifiably scared of the digital board, it might reduce the number of people willing to give it a shot, and that would be bad for our dance. And the fewer things that can get accidentally set in weird ways the better.", "timestamp": "1406294266"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/669559630012?comment_id=669586126912", "anchor": "fb-669586126912", "service": "fb", "text": "@Kiran: The other reason I wouldn't want to recommend the DL1608 is the dependence on an iPad. It probably doesn't make sense for a dance group to buy an iPad to keep with the sound system, but it also isn't something they can count on the person running sound to have. And how long they will remain available/reparable isn't clear. It would be annoying to have bought a DL1608 a few years ago with the old 30-pin connector and need to use an adapter to work with a modern iPad.

The DL1608 is also $1k (plus $500 for an iPad if you don't have one) while the Mackie I recommended is $500.

If you are going to get a digital board, though, it should probably be the DL1608. (I really like my 1818VSL but it has all these problems and more.)", "timestamp": "1406299701"}, {"author": "Perry", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/669559630012?comment_id=669587319522", "anchor": "fb-669587319522", "service": "fb", "text": "I'm not a sound person, but this is the sound board that my group just purchased. I'm not a sound guy, but our sound engineers are perfectly happy with this one: http://www.presonus.com/products/StudioLive-AI-Series", "timestamp": "1406300418"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/669559630012?comment_id=669587559042", "anchor": "fb-669587559042", "service": "fb", "text": "@Hollis: \"I would encourage groups to look at boards with larger numbers of XLR inputs, but that's partly because I play in a sound-guy's-nightmare band.\"

There are a few bands like Frost and Fire, Gallimaufry, and Big Bandemonium that need a 16-xlr board. But looking at my list of dance bands [1] only 1% of dance slots were bands this big (2/226ths of slots being Gallimaufry). For these rare dances I think it makes more sense to borrow a bigger mixer, or run two mixers together.

Another option for bands this big would be to bring and run your own stage setup including a DL1608 as the mixer. Then give the sound person one xlr output from your mixer to pipe into the hall PA. But: also give them a second iPad so they can go out into the hall and adjust levels. You get things about right, but leave them the freedom to make changes if they're needed as the hall fills up.

(I really like bands bringing and running mics and monitors. The Free Raisins do this on tour, and having this consistency is great. Looking at their tech rider [2] it sounds like Gallimaufry does this too. What I just proposed with the DL1608 is something the Free Raisins are thinking about doing on our next tour like the current one.)

[1] http://www.jefftk.com/p/dance-weekend-and-festival-survey (This isn't quite the right list for this question, because it's dance weekends instead of regular dances, but it's probably about right.)

[2] https://docs.google.com/.../1dmXJ0HpklHqQ2G0IhZcs.../pub", "timestamp": "1406300530"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/669559630012?comment_id=669587758642", "anchor": "fb-669587758642", "service": "fb", "text": "@Perry: That's the board Audrey has, and we've run sound for ourselves with it several times. If you have a group of sound engineers who are all willing to put in the time to learn the ins and outs of this particular digital board then it's an ok choice, but otherwise the greater standardization of analog boards is much better.", "timestamp": "1406300737"}, {"author": "Hollis", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/669559630012?comment_id=669589689772", "anchor": "fb-669589689772", "service": "fb", "text": "Jeff Kaufman: That's what we're doing now, too. DL1608 and we're happier! We can't bring all the associated gear, but we're basically self-sufficient for mixer and mics in the car.", "timestamp": "1406302016"}, {"author": "Nick", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/669559630012?comment_id=669590403342", "anchor": "fb-669590403342", "service": "fb", "text": "Jeff, have you thought about some straightforward tools for measuring and compensating for room acoustics?. A decent 1/3 octave graphic EQ (even something as inexpensive as a Behringer Ultragraph FBQ3102) conbined with a Phonic PAA3 Audio Analyzer will allow you to quickly and relatively easily set a baseline EQ profile. For me, at least, once I started taking the room into account, the amount of per-instrument twiddling that I had to do decreased immensely.", "timestamp": "1406302500"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/669559630012?comment_id=669620572882", "anchor": "fb-669620572882", "service": "fb", "text": "@Nick: Graphic EQs can be used well, and many halls do have resonances that would be good to limit, but I've seen them misused much more often than used helpfully. Most people running sound at contra dances would need more training and experience before adding an eq would improve sound quality in the hall.

There are dances and engineers that this doesn't apply to, but those people probably know who they are.", "timestamp": "1406314071"}, {"author": "Audrey", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/669559630012?comment_id=669621126772", "anchor": "fb-669621126772", "service": "fb", "text": "Perry I've been really happy with the Presonus. It has the best of both worlds of digital and analog - knobs for visual leaners but with all the extra benefits that a digital board has (including recording capability, and wi-fi capability). In my opinion, based on who will be running sound (a lot of new people, one person, lots of turnover, etc.), I would suggest a different mixer based off of that information. Jeff's post is a great place to start for contra dance groups that have no idea where to start. Buying gear can be very overwhelming because of all the different strong opinions and options out there.", "timestamp": "1406314367"}, {"author": "Josh", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/669559630012?comment_id=669621805412", "anchor": "fb-669621805412", "service": "fb", "text": "The StudioLive's SMAART feature can do a really nice job of tuning a room very quickly (and does at least a good a job as an average audio engineer).", "timestamp": "1406314588"}, {"author": "Audrey", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/669559630012?comment_id=669623302412", "anchor": "fb-669623302412", "service": "fb", "text": "Agree with Jeff. A graphic EQ would definitely be ideal in a hall (especially with known resonant frequencies), but for a group just starting out (without much sound experience), it's more dangerous than good. The new SMAART stuff on the persons is AWESOME btw.", "timestamp": "1406314836"}, {"author": "Nick", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/669559630012?comment_id=669625847312", "anchor": "fb-669625847312", "service": "fb", "text": "Jeff -- Having made many of the mistakes of which you speak, I wholeheartedly agree with you.", "timestamp": "1406316287"}, {"author": "Will", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/669559630012?comment_id=669751121262", "anchor": "fb-669751121262", "service": "fb", "text": "I strongly encourage people buying microphones is to always buy from a reputable dealer, not off eBay or Craigslist, because of the large number of counterfeits, especial of Shure SM57 and SM58. The only real way to tell is it's real or fake is the weight: an SM57 should weigh 284g, most fakes will be notably less. For more details on how to spot a fake, just Google \"SM57 fake\".

I buy most of my gear from http://ProAudioStar.com in NYC because they have excellent prices and service, and often offer free shipping.", "timestamp": "1406408972"}, {"author": "Luke", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/115294324243294509069", "anchor": "gp-1407509702440", "service": "gp", "text": "Thanks. MRCC has been kicking the idea around for a while, and good to have the reference.", "timestamp": 1407509702}]}