{"items": [{"author": "Jai", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/888642725732?comment_id=888646687792", "anchor": "fb-888646687792", "service": "fb", "text": "This is roughly how I feel right now too.", "timestamp": "1500501417"}, {"author": "Jim", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/888642725732?comment_id=888646812542", "anchor": "fb-888646812542", "service": "fb", "text": "Would this reasoning still apply if you had a direct-work option that didn't involve working remotely? For example, if there were a MIRI-style research organization located in the Boston/Somerville area?", "timestamp": "1500501481"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/888642725732?comment_id=888646812542&reply_comment_id=888649467222", "anchor": "fb-888646812542_888649467222", "service": "fb", "text": "→ * I don't think MIRI style research is where I would want to work. Of the people I've talked to, I think Dario's approach makes the most sense: http://www.jefftk.com/p/conversation-with-dario-amodei
* I also don't think ai safety is the right place for me, though I'm less sure on this", "timestamp": "1500502741"}, {"author": "Jim", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/888642725732?comment_id=888646812542&reply_comment_id=888651088972", "anchor": "fb-888646812542_888651088972", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Would you want to do the style of research you did for this project, if it was in the context of an organization with guidance and colleagues?", "timestamp": "1500503124"}, {"author": "Jim", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/888642725732?comment_id=888646812542&reply_comment_id=888651672802", "anchor": "fb-888646812542_888651672802", "service": "fb", "text": "→ (Based on your AI risk project and other things I know about you, I think your direct-work value would be extremely high, if there's a context where you can be happy doing it.)", "timestamp": "1500503298"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/888642725732?comment_id=888646812542&reply_comment_id=888657221682", "anchor": "fb-888646812542_888657221682", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Possibly, but I'd want to be working in the same physical location as people", "timestamp": "1500504294"}, {"author": "Stefan", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/888642725732?comment_id=888647226712", "anchor": "fb-888647226712", "service": "fb", "text": "My intuition is that you could be very useful at an EA org. I think that if you could find a good role you should try it out.", "timestamp": "1500501683"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/888642725732?comment_id=888647226712&reply_comment_id=888651662822", "anchor": "fb-888647226712_888651662822", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Thanks! I don't think they're are any Boston-based non-remote options in this category, though", "timestamp": "1500503289"}, {"author": "Jim", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/888642725732?comment_id=888648449262", "anchor": "fb-888648449262", "service": "fb", "text": "I already thought it was a problem that there's no Boston-area research organization able to absorb people who are interested in AI safety, but lack the ability or desire to self-manage. This makes me think that it might be the right time to found one, or to expand an organization such as FLI to be that. Consider talking to Max Tegmark about it.", "timestamp": "1500502245"}, {"author": "David German", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/111229345142780712481", "anchor": "gp-1500502393636", "service": "gp", "text": "\"I think the most important things are mostly constrained by people, not money\"\n
\n
\nIs there a prior post where you've explained this view?", "timestamp": 1500502393}, {"author": "Sonja", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/888642725732?comment_id=888649906342", "anchor": "fb-888649906342", "service": "fb", "text": "Sounds like a good idea to me! Have fun!", "timestamp": "1500502840"}, {"author": "Mad", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/888642725732?comment_id=888651982182", "anchor": "fb-888651982182", "service": "fb", "text": "I agree that isolating yourself is no good, but I'll note that what you did this month was pretty extreme! Working with a remote team is not at all the same as working alone, and can be highly engaged (if done well, eg if all team members use slack a lot).", "timestamp": "1500503489"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/888642725732?comment_id=888651982182&reply_comment_id=888658264592", "anchor": "fb-888651982182_888658264592", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Wave was a remote team that had good remote culture with Slack, Skype, etc, though I set up co-working with the other Boston employees. On days when I was by myself in the space I felt very lonely unless I was 100% busy.", "timestamp": "1500504537"}, {"author": "Mad", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/888642725732?comment_id=888651982182&reply_comment_id=888674427202", "anchor": "fb-888651982182_888674427202", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Jeff Kaufman well then, that sounds like the most relevant evidence to me :)", "timestamp": "1500509403"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/888642725732?comment_id=888651982182&reply_comment_id=888911656792", "anchor": "fb-888651982182_888911656792", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Roko: on the other hand, if we weren't then housing would be even more expensive", "timestamp": "1500603150"}, {"author": "Ryan", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/888642725732?comment_id=888660659792", "anchor": "fb-888660659792", "service": "fb", "text": "If doing a thing makes you miserable, you will eventually burn out at it -- so the ROI will go down significantly. Do something you like (or at least don't actively dislike) doing for a living, and that way whatever you are able to give (in time and/or money) will be more sustained and sustainable. You seem to be pretty well-informed on EA, so it is likely whatever path you choose will work toward that in some way, either through working directly with/for an organization with an altruistic mission or through earning to give.
Also wanted to tell you that it has been informative to read your work over the last month or so while you've been figuring out your next steps.", "timestamp": "1500505129"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/888642725732?comment_id=888660659792&reply_comment_id=888665844402", "anchor": "fb-888660659792_888665844402", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Thanks! I'm not planning to do something I find miserable for both your \"bad ROI\" reason but also the \"I'm not that altruistic\" reason.
It's possible that there are options I'm not considering that won't make me miserable though.", "timestamp": "1500506617"}, {"author": "Ryan", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/888642725732?comment_id=888660659792&reply_comment_id=888670215642", "anchor": "fb-888660659792_888670215642", "service": "fb", "text": "→ \"I don't want to do something I find miserable\" is an ENTIRELY valid reason totally on its own to not do a thing, and I did not mean to imply otherwise! However, I've noticed that when you talk about making decisions on the blog, you tend to favor quantitative measures rather than qualitative ones, and ROI struck me as a reasonable quantitative measure to consider as you contemplate your next steps.", "timestamp": "1500508258"}, {"author": "Cortland", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/888642725732?comment_id=888676488072", "anchor": "fb-888676488072", "service": "fb", "text": "I'm glad you put so much thought into this, Jeff. I admire your methods and support your conclusion about returning to work you enjoy.", "timestamp": "1500510057"}, {"author": "Ajeya", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/888642725732?comment_id=888704601732", "anchor": "fb-888704601732", "service": "fb", "text": "What are your thoughts on a PHD or other graduate work at a place like Harvard or MIT, or GCR strategy type stuff at Future of Life institute?", "timestamp": "1500519167"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/888642725732?comment_id=888704601732&reply_comment_id=888706308312", "anchor": "fb-888704601732_888706308312", "service": "fb", "text": "→ It's a possibility, but I'm nervous that it would be pretty solitary work, and that I wouldn't like it very much.", "timestamp": "1500519514"}, {"author": "Alice", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/888642725732?comment_id=888704601732&reply_comment_id=888708399122", "anchor": "fb-888704601732_888708399122", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Jeff Kaufman I think if you found just the right program and research group it wouldn't be solitary, but the risk is real.", "timestamp": "1500520123"}, {"author": "Anjali", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/888642725732?comment_id=888704601732&reply_comment_id=888711258392", "anchor": "fb-888704601732_888711258392", "service": "fb", "text": "→ ^ I disagree pretty strongly. I work in a very interdisciplinary research group and it's still more solitary than I would like. I think this becomes more true, not less, as you go into the more theoretical sciences.", "timestamp": "1500521433"}, {"author": "Ajeya", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/888642725732?comment_id=888704601732&reply_comment_id=888714801292", "anchor": "fb-888704601732_888714801292", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Yeah that makes a lot of sense, I have strong preferences for non-solitary work too. I hope you find a great fit!", "timestamp": "1500522927"}, {"author": "Peter", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/888642725732?comment_id=888707326272", "anchor": "fb-888707326272", "service": "fb", "text": "1.) I think ETG is underrated. There seem to be a lot of important money gaps. EA Grants turned down a lot of great proposals and GiveWell says that the \"high-value funding gaps [they]\u2019ve identified exceed the amount of donations [they] expect to direct to those gaps\".
2.) It doesn't have to be an either-or. Do you think you could find an ETG job that would give you enough free time to do some smaller amount of self-directed research?
3.) There seem to be many opportunities in tech to have direct involvement with something potentially beneficial. You found one such opportunity at Wave. Replaceability matters here as you've noted, but that can vary depending on the company, and depending on the opportunity you find you may generate valuable knowledge for the EA movement.", "timestamp": "1500519704"}, {"author": "Ben", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/888642725732?comment_id=888707326272&reply_comment_id=888716817252", "anchor": "fb-888707326272_888716817252", "service": "fb", "text": "→ >EA Grants turned down a lot of great proposals
This is the best news I've heard in a while, assuming a similar threshold for \"great\".", "timestamp": "1500523766"}, {"author": "Peter", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/888642725732?comment_id=888707326272&reply_comment_id=888719337202", "anchor": "fb-888707326272_888719337202", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Ben I'm not sure what you mean.", "timestamp": "1500524639"}, {"author": "Ben", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/888642725732?comment_id=888707326272&reply_comment_id=888721627612", "anchor": "fb-888707326272_888721627612", "service": "fb", "text": "→ I think Ben is happy to hear about how much greatness is going around. CEA set aside I think 500k and there's still loads of awesome things.", "timestamp": "1500526017"}, {"author": "Ben", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/888642725732?comment_id=888707326272&reply_comment_id=888723788282", "anchor": "fb-888707326272_888723788282", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Unless they turned down great proposals for no good reason, in which case this isn't particularly good news.", "timestamp": "1500527407"}, {"author": "Jacob", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/888642725732?comment_id=888728324192", "anchor": "fb-888728324192", "service": "fb", "text": "You mentioned biotech in one of your earlier posts, but sounded worried that you wouldn't have much influence as a software engineer. How worthwhile would it be to talk to more software-oriented biotech companies? I know of a few small-ish biotech start-ups that are more CS-oriented than normal, and could dig into whether they're hiring if you care.", "timestamp": "1500530714"}, {"author": "Wolf", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/888642725732?comment_id=888804042452", "anchor": "fb-888804042452", "service": "fb", "text": "NOT blaming you or anything but I hoped more would have come out of \"Update 2017-07-03: for the next few weeks I'm planning to work on understanding why there are such different views on superintelligence risk.\"
If *you* don't feel like being able to write a more conclusive summary of the situation I doubt many others will. :-(", "timestamp": "1500569736"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/888642725732?comment_id=888804042452&reply_comment_id=888805324882", "anchor": "fb-888804042452_888805324882", "service": "fb", "text": "→ I do intend to write a summary, but I need to tie up some loose ends first.", "timestamp": "1500570057"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/888642725732?comment_id=888804042452&reply_comment_id=888818683112", "anchor": "fb-888804042452_888818683112", "service": "fb", "text": "→ For example, I wanted to get my last set of conversation notes out [1] and see if I changed my mind about anything during fb discussion on it.
[1] http://www.jefftk.com/p/conversation-with-an-ai-researcher", "timestamp": "1500575128"}, {"author": "Wolf", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/888642725732?comment_id=888804042452&reply_comment_id=888847335692", "anchor": "fb-888804042452_888847335692", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Well, interest in AI has historically been going up and down a lot and I wholly agree that previous AI winter(s) were mostly caused by hardware constraints preventing immediate applicability.
I also think massive investors like we presently observe are of major importance but my argument coming from that is bit different: How likely is it, that one can reasonably outperform one of the big players in the field of AI safety, even when it's about meta levels of AI safety? Some have already shown interest in the matter (the relevant ethical considerations) and will attract top people simply by being very popular employers. Even if one thinks that they'll get it wrong for some reason, wouldn't it be more reasonable to try and influence them by becoming part of their core research team?", "timestamp": "1500585038"}, {"author": "KC", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/888642725732?comment_id=888849945462", "anchor": "fb-888849945462", "service": "fb", "text": "Does this mean no running for government?", "timestamp": "1500585853"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/888642725732?comment_id=888849945462&reply_comment_id=888850763822", "anchor": "fb-888849945462_888850763822", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Yup, sorry! After I learned more I decided it wasn't a good fit", "timestamp": "1500586224"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/103013777355236494008", "anchor": "gp-1500652876329", "service": "gp", "text": "@David German\n \"Is there a prior post where you've explained this view?\"\n
\n
\nThere is now: \nhttps://www.jefftk.com/p/more-giving-vs-doing", "timestamp": 1500652876}, {"author": "Anna", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/888642725732?comment_id=889746179402", "anchor": "fb-889746179402", "service": "fb", "text": "Hey, since you said you considered running for office (so you probably think that realm is important) but it wasn't a good fit for you--have you considered going to this free Tufts anti-gerrymandering workshop August 7-9 geared towards people in quantitative fields (math, CS, stats)? It's at the Somerville Theatre. I just talked to one of the organizers for an article, and it sounds like there is quite a need for building software and analysis tools before redistricting happens in 2021. https://sites.tufts.edu/gerrym.../about-the-august-workshop/", "timestamp": "1500946384"}, {"author": "Michael", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/888642725732?comment_id=890037056482", "anchor": "fb-890037056482", "service": "fb", "text": "Comparing an etg job you like with the direct work option that seems most valuable might not be the right comparison. I'd be interested in knowing what direct-work job you would find comparably interesting/enjoyable to an etg programmer job, even if you think it's substantially less valuable than the most-valuable direct-work job you could have. The direct-work role might still win on impact grounds.", "timestamp": "1501056839"}, {"author": "Owen", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/888642725732?comment_id=890037056482&reply_comment_id=890057899712", "anchor": "fb-890037056482_890057899712", "service": "fb", "text": "→ A special case of this that might be worth considering: doing direct work on something you think is very important, but working many fewer hours (taking more time for leisure / hobby projects, or possibly other employment).", "timestamp": "1501066237"}]}