{"items": [{"author": "Cedar", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/274926365961758?comment_id=274929559294772", "anchor": "fb-274929559294772", "service": "fb", "text": "It is not true that most successful dance communities are cliquish - Belfast, Montpelier are a couple excellent examples!", "timestamp": "1351601242"}, {"author": "Adam", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/274926365961758?comment_id=274934689294259", "anchor": "fb-274934689294259", "service": "fb", "text": "I know that Gfld has had a bad reputation about this for years. New dancers tend to be obvious and whenever I encounter them in the line or as a partner, I will ask if it is their first time contra dancing. If it is, I say \"welcome to Greenfield!\". The number of people sitting out these days seems to be very low these days and new folks seem to keep coming back again and again, which I take as a good sign. I've actually had a lot of difficulty in the past at Concord dances, particularly with the younger set. I've had to sit out a number of dances. It also feels like the booking is much faster in Concord than other places.", "timestamp": "1351601821"}, {"author": "Jon", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/274926365961758?comment_id=274943239293404", "anchor": "fb-274943239293404", "service": "fb", "text": "Jeff it's a provocative question, thanks for posting. You make friends, you dance together, you chat at the break, you seek out those people. More than strangers? Often, yes. It's just the reality of friendships. Others notice that, and can feel \"excluded\" even though that may not be your intent. It becomes clique-ish when it actually IS your intent!", "timestamp": "1351603339"}, {"author": "Chelsea", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/274926365961758?comment_id=274949525959442", "anchor": "fb-274949525959442", "service": "fb", "text": "Cedar - It's so interesting that you say that the Montpelier dance is cliquish. Mostly because when I got to Montpelier and started making friends and discussing contra dancing I talked about the \"breaking in\" process at the Concord dance. The general reaction was that one shouldn't have to go through that process, but I pointed out that I had had to \"break in\" at Montpelier, too. Folks were incredulous. That's not the self-perception.-- To me it has always been more fun to dance and friendly to dance when friends are there. Often this is beyond the organizer's control because it means that dancers need to be open to making more friendships in their lives with the new guy and hanging out outside of dances as well.", "timestamp": "1351604195"}, {"author": "Jeannine", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/274926365961758?comment_id=274950342626027", "anchor": "fb-274950342626027", "service": "fb", "text": "There may be some cliquish dancers in Greenfield and at the Scout House, but I find the vast majority of dancers willing to dance with anyone. I never find myself stuck without a partner. Even when I was a newbie, there were still people who were willing to show me the ropes. That's what I find so wonderful about our dance! People are generally open and supportive of new dancers.", "timestamp": "1351604310"}, {"author": "Victor", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/274926365961758?comment_id=274958129291915", "anchor": "fb-274958129291915", "service": "fb", "text": "Gender imbalance and traditional gender roles have an impact. If there are excess men, new women will feel much more welcome than new men. In theory, this should correct the gender imbalance in the long run.", "timestamp": "1351605804"}, {"author": "Chelsea", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/274926365961758?comment_id=274958405958554", "anchor": "fb-274958405958554", "service": "fb", "text": "@ Victor - How long has it been like that? I'm not sure about this theory!? But it certainly does help!", "timestamp": "1351605881"}, {"author": "Victor", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/274926365961758?comment_id=274958835958511", "anchor": "fb-274958835958511", "service": "fb", "text": "A long time, that's why i said \"in theory\".", "timestamp": "1351605964"}, {"author": "Rachel", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/274926365961758?comment_id=274992055955189", "anchor": "fb-274992055955189", "service": "fb", "text": "I'll agree that Concord is probably cliquiest dance I've encountered - I've had problems bringing students and having them feel welcome. Greenfield has changed drastically even in the period since I was doing college visits and it's often far more obvious that there's an active effort to overcome the reputation that it has. Concord... I don't feel like there's quite as much effort. I've talked to a number of people about that, because it really bothers me to bring students from Hampshire and have them feel excluded - and I've noticed an interesting pattern: one on one, people dislike the reputation Concord has and every person I've chatted with will give you half a dozen examples of how they personally attempt to rectify it. But when you stick us all in a room (me included) the behavioral patterns that lead to the feeling of exclusivity manifest again - and most of the the time it seems like these people, entirely well intentioned, don't notice.
I'll admit to being culpable when I'm in Concord to perpetuating the some of the cliquish attitudes - I travel far enough to get there I tend to be picky about my parters. It bothers me, and I do tend to try and not book ahead or accept dances from people not part of the younger 'group'. It's great to dance with friends and have a really tight group of people to hang out with at a dance. And people who dance in cliquish communities seem to be aware of the dynamic and actively work against it, at least. I just wish I could figure out what could make these efforts more welcoming to new dancers.", "timestamp": "1351611484"}, {"author": "Chelsea", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/274926365961758?comment_id=274999309287797", "anchor": "fb-274999309287797", "service": "fb", "text": "I think the difference between concord and montpelier is that it's not just about the partner, it's about the set you dance in. In Montpelier there's a friend in every line. In Concord branching out can mean losing the chance to dance with a friend the next dance and the next because you've been moved away from the set for the between dance mingling.", "timestamp": "1351612637"}, {"author": "Andrew", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/274926365961758?comment_id=275004969287231", "anchor": "fb-275004969287231", "service": "fb", "text": "Your question is a group of questions. Here's a long response, but it is by no means a full survey of the problem.
Is cliquishness healthy? No. In the long run, cliquishness kills dances, because newcomers are the lifeblood of a dance, and if you exclude them, they will not return. This happened to the Monday night Concord dance, which was at one time more popular than the Thursday night dance.
Why are dance communities cliquish? It is people who are cliquish. And let me be clear, by cliquish, I mean exclusive, selfish, and disrespectful. If you attend a contra dance with 3-4 sets, and you dance in only one of them more than half the time, I'm talking about you.
Are there conditions at the dance (like gender balance) that force people to be cliquish? No. I've danced for 30+ years in Concord and other places, and I always dance around the hall, I don't reserve partners ahead, etc. Am I happy being excluded by the clique? No. But I am happier being excluded than being part of it. There are other dances in Boston (like the BIDA dance and the JP gender free dance) that are pleasant and they don't have the exclusion problems that the Concord Thursday contra has.
Why does it happen? There are many reasons, but I'll offer one here: There is a fashion these days for the music to be quite fast (let's say over 118 bpm). At this speed, most dancers can't keep up with the music - not the young, not the old. But how do they deal with it? The old (and other slow) dancers lag behind. The young dancers tend to jerk around chaotically, falling behind and then running to catch up - and often they end up bouncing off fellow dancers. This sort of dancing causes difficulty between those who can't keep up and those who bounce off them, and the groups then tend to repel each other. A young person might dance in a \"slow set\" and have such a bad time that they say \"I'm not dancing there again.\"
Whose fault is this? (yes, fault.) The musicians are playing too fast for the dancers, but it's the caller's job to pay attention to this. In Concord, the callers visit once or twice a year. Almost none of them have the nerve to impose any control or discipline on the musicians or the dancers. In the olden days, single callers (Ralph Page, Ted Sanella, Tony Parkes) used to \"own\" their dances, calling week after week, and they had more knowledge, more discipline, more respect from the dancers, and more control of the conditions. There are a very few callers who will rein in a band or break up a too-long cliquish set, but it doesn't happen often.
How to deal with cliquishness (i.e., break up the exclusive set)? Just do it. Dancers, organizers, and callers can talk about it and make it happen. It always puzzles me that in a community that seems to be so socially conscious, where many won't wear leather or eat meat for ethical reasons, that we treat our fellow dancers with such disdain.
Dance around the hall. Don't reserve ahead. Don't always dance with the same people. It's not that complicated.", "timestamp": "1351613553"}, {"author": "Stephen", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/274926365961758?comment_id=275010289286699", "anchor": "fb-275010289286699", "service": "fb", "text": "In the Boston area, there are novice, intermediate, and advanced dances. IMO, more advanced dancers need to go to novice dances. How are beginners going to improve? In Michigan, nearly all dances are essentially novice dances. Many dances start with a half hour of instruction. Instruction is nearly always helped by advanced dancers. But Michigan doesn't have dancing in high school PE classes.", "timestamp": "1351614516"}, {"author": "Adam", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/274926365961758?comment_id=275010545953340", "anchor": "fb-275010545953340", "service": "fb", "text": "Andrew, fast music is not the problem, in fact, it may be what keeps people coming back. I've danced with plenty of people who are older than yourself and they manage to keep time with no problem. Timing is not something that affects only one age group- either earliness or lateness can cause problems in crowded halls. Musicians are playing what the crowd wants- if you want slow, perhaps you might find English more to your liking.", "timestamp": "1351614569"}, {"author": "Aaron", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/274926365961758?comment_id=275019969285731", "anchor": "fb-275019969285731", "service": "fb", "text": "I've always felt that Greenfield is incredibly welcoming, and I'm surprised to hear it described as even somewhat cliquey. Overall, I agree on most points--strong communities are inclusive, effort is important, dancing with new people (especially people who are completely new to contra) is worthwhile.
Here is one additional thought: I almost never turn anyone down who asks me to dance, and never because I'm picky--but it's very rare that anyone asks me unless they already know me and have danced with me before. I would encourage both newer dancers and women who want to follow to take more initiative in seeking partners (other demographics tend to already do so out of necessity).", "timestamp": "1351616219"}, {"author": "Allison", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/109502185221418876252", "anchor": "gp-1351617624434", "service": "gp", "text": "Andrew Tannenbaum commented on Facebook that callers in his experience tend not to break up too-long or cramped sets (anymore). This is certainly a local phenomenon; callers in Chicago and the Bay Area regularly break up long sets, often specifying which groups of four ought to move to which other set. In Chicago, at least, the dance community is small and the same few people call most dances; the Bay Area seems to have a bigger community, but I haven't been around long enough or paying enough attention to know if the callers here repeat very often.", "timestamp": 1351617624}, {"author": "Andrew", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/274926365961758?comment_id=275035685950826", "anchor": "fb-275035685950826", "service": "fb", "text": "Adam, I'm not saying fast music is the only problem, I'm saying that it is a strong contributing factor to the divisiveness in our dances. As for \"giving the dancers what they want,\" I've found that most dancers are happy with good music whether it's faster or slower, and they don't even tend to be too discerning about quality - they just have fun or not, and they're not ware of why. As for \"maybe I should try English dancing,\" - no, I prefer contra dancing to English, and I do and have done many other kinds of dancing (ballet, Scandi, Balkan, Israeli, English etc).
I hear that you think fast music is what keeps people coming back, and I understand that fast music gets people excited, the same way that whipping a race horse will get it excited, but I don't think it makes for \"good dancing.\" Good dancing? Among other things, I mean having time to interact with all the people in the set, rather than just racing past them or bouncing off them. I understand that many people just want to dance faster, and I guess they find faster dancing more interesting - I find that faster dancing becomes sloppy dancing, and I find that less interesting.", "timestamp": "1351618645"}, {"author": "Bronwyn", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/274926365961758?comment_id=275042595950135", "anchor": "fb-275042595950135", "service": "fb", "text": "I think your (Jeff's) parenthetical comment about the size of the dance is actually a really significant factor here. I agree that inclusiveness seems more important in a small dance just because the margin for survival is smaller. But I also think being inclusive is easier at smaller dances. For instance, at the last Pittsburgh dance (I was calling and saw this happening from the stage), two experienced dancers partnered up for the first dance. Some other people in the line (there was only one for the first dance or two) mentioned politely that there were beginners dancing together a few couples down. The experienced people split up and danced with the beginners. Those beginners picked things up quickly and were having a great time all evening. Those experienced people were able to easily find and dance with each other later on. It seems to me that being inclusive is easier in situations like this where you are not actually sacrificing the chance to dance with person X by starting the evening dancing with a newcomer.
Also, I'm a little confused about how you are judging the strength of a dance community. The size? The growth rate? The frequency with which regulars come to the dance? The percentage of newcomers who become regulars? If you are just defining the strength of a community by the size of the dance, then I think you will get the confound that exclusivity is easier and more important to an individual's enjoyment of the dance at a larger dance. If you consider a small but stable dance community strong if it has a reliable group of regulars (some of whom eventually leave) and a constant influx of beginners (some of whom become regulars), then I'm not sure I agree with the claim that strong communities are more exclusive.", "timestamp": "1351620176"}, {"author": "Andrew", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/274926365961758?comment_id=275048742616187", "anchor": "fb-275048742616187", "service": "fb", "text": "Bronwyn, I'd like to note that Jeff K is very active in running the Boston BIDA dance, which is intentionally inclusive, welcoming to dancers, musicians, and callers of all stripes, ages, and skill levels, and not nearly as cliquish as the Thursday night Concord dance. I'm pretty sure he's asking out of curiosity, and he's not endorsing exclusive behavior. Even if the BIDA dance is more \"novice,\" I often find it more pleasant than the more-popular Concord dance.
Re your comment about size and strength of the dance, I think I agree with you. I think in some cases a clique will \"invade\" (loaded term, I know) a space that seems attractive - \"hey, here's a dance with a good hall and good music - let's have our own fun here.\" They do that and they don't pay attention to the organic sense of community that built and nourished and sustained the dance before they arrived.", "timestamp": "1351621513"}, {"author": "Bronwyn", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/274926365961758?comment_id=275060065948388", "anchor": "fb-275060065948388", "service": "fb", "text": "Andrew, I wasn't implying anything about Jeff's motives or criticizing anyone (I assume, as you do, that this question was posed out of curiosity). I was just exploring the idea that the difference in cliquishness is possibly due to dance size rather than dance strength and posing the question of how we should think about or quantify dance strength (I don't think there's an easy answer).
I haven't experienced the sort of \"invasion\" you talk about. I suppose I could sort of imagine it happening in theory, but the small dances I'm familiar with are in places where there is a lower number/density of dancers in general. I'm not familiar with the situation where you have a small dance _and_ a crowd of cliquish dancers who suddenly show up en masse. It is true that the culture and composition of dances change over time -- is that what you are referring to?", "timestamp": "1351623699"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/274926365961758?comment_id=275066962614365", "anchor": "fb-275066962614365", "service": "fb", "text": "@Bronwyn: \"I haven't experienced the sort of 'invasion' you talk about\"
What about when a group of college students all travel to a dance and then spend most of the evening dancing with each other? (Recalling instigating such behavior ...)", "timestamp": "1351625056"}, {"author": "Bronwyn", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/274926365961758?comment_id=275069585947436", "anchor": "fb-275069585947436", "service": "fb", "text": "Mmm, I suppose that's true Jeff. I wasn't thinking about one-time or rare invasions, but I should have thought of that. You're right, of course.", "timestamp": "1351625490"}, {"author": "opted out", "source_link": "#", "anchor": "unknown", "service": "unknown", "text": "this user has requested that their comments not be shown here", "timestamp": "1351625558"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/274926365961758?comment_id=275071305947264", "anchor": "fb-275071305947264", "service": "fb", "text": "Several people [1] describe dances as being cliquey that other people [2] describe as being open and welcoming. People's experiences at dances will differ, but I wonder how people come to such different views of the same dance?
I'm also curious how much of people seeing a dance as exclusive is actually about how hard it is to break into the in-crowd as an experienced dancer from elsewhere. I admit that's what made me think of Greenfield as cliquish; I didn't go through being a beginner there, and I might actually have found it really welcoming, especially compared to other social options.
[1] Chelsea, Chloe, Rachel
[2] Jeannine, Cedar, Aaron", "timestamp": "1351625784"}, {"author": "Chelsea", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/274926365961758?comment_id=275071332613928", "anchor": "fb-275071332613928", "service": "fb", "text": "Cedar - Just now realizing I misread your comment :D", "timestamp": "1351625785"}, {"author": "Chelsea", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/274926365961758?comment_id=275076085946786", "anchor": "fb-275076085946786", "service": "fb", "text": "I'm not sure that the fact you have to break in means the dance is cliquey. . . It's possible you have to break in at a lot of different events. Now that I've read Cedar's comment the right way I would just add that uncliquey dances and cliquey dances may not be as different as they seem - - - You feel like you're on the outside until you're suddenly at home - which is how I feel at both the Concord and Montpelier dances these days (even though ankles have kept me away for a while).", "timestamp": "1351626789"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/103013777355236494008", "anchor": "gp-1351627113303", "service": "gp", "text": "@Allison\n\u00a0\"callers in his experience tend not to break up too-long or cramped sets\"\n
\n
\nIn the Boston area it varies. \u00a0At MIT or BIDA the dancers are cooperative and if the caller asks for another set or for set-evening the dancers generally happily comply. \u00a0At a Scout House Thursday it's quite common to have more than twice as many dancers in the fireplace set as in the far opposite one, but the dancers in the crowded set would ignore any requests from the caller for a few couples to move over. \u00a0A caller might be able to convince them to split into two sets, but even that is hard.\n
\n
\nI think what's going on is that at the dances where people are happy to listen to the caller the sets have become lopsided for little reason, just by people ending up in different places. \u00a0Or the sets are crowded because no one wants to take the social risk of starting a new line. At the Scout House, however, the dancers have chosen their sets intentionally and are happy with them as they are.", "timestamp": 1351627113}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/274926365961758?comment_id=275078385946556", "anchor": "fb-275078385946556", "service": "fb", "text": "@Bronwyn, Justin: defining a 'successful' or 'strong' dance community is difficult. I would normally deal with this sort of ambiguity by just giving a lot of examples, but that seems likely to offend. Bronwyn's list seems about right: it's a combination of factors.", "timestamp": "1351627286"}, {"author": "Perry", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/274926365961758?comment_id=275083645946030", "anchor": "fb-275083645946030", "service": "fb", "text": "Jeff - simply put, if you are part of a clique then you'll feel welcomed because you've been invited by the clique, but being a clique they would be picky as to who is invited in the clique. If you're not invited in the clique then you might feel like you don't belong there. And to me, when judging terms of whether a dance is successful, then judge by the size and feel of the crowd when it's not Perpetual e-Motion or some other hot national band.", "timestamp": "1351628398"}, {"author": "Andrew", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/274926365961758?comment_id=275084259279302", "anchor": "fb-275084259279302", "service": "fb", "text": "If I sound negative/critical, sorry about that. I will admit that sometimes I'm disappointed with the behavior/vibe at dances like the Concord Thursday contra - not because it's only bad (it's not only bad), but rather because it could/should be better. When I talk about \"invasion,\" I mean, in the case of this same dance, that I've heard (mostly young) people say, \"if you don't like the way we dance in the fireplace set (the cliquish set), then you don't have to dance here.\" The idea of a clique \"owning\" a set is an invasion. I've asked people why they only dance in that set, and they've said things like \"The other sets are so dead.\" I've heard it often, and the spirit of it makes me sad - it borders on bigotry. If people dance around the hall, this isn't a problem.
I like contra dancing. I like dancing in Concord on Thursday nights. I even like dancing there in the fireplace set. I just don't like the cliquish exclusive attitude, where many of the dancers only dance there, and only with their buddies, and if they feel like ignoring you or colliding with you, it's not their problem.", "timestamp": "1351628505"}, {"author": "Jeannine", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/274926365961758?comment_id=275087442612317", "anchor": "fb-275087442612317", "service": "fb", "text": "Jeff, how are you defining \"in-crowd\" at contra? Do you mean that a small subset of dancers determine whether you feel welcomed or not? That could be why some people think of it as cliquey while others, including myself, find the contra community at large to be incredibly open and welcoming. I also wonder if we're being unfair to people who want to spend time with their friends at dances. That may be the only time they get to see each other, and I doubt there is any deliberate effort to be exclusive.", "timestamp": "1351629241"}, {"author": "Paulina", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/274926365961758?comment_id=275087699278958", "anchor": "fb-275087699278958", "service": "fb", "text": "I agree with Aaron that being assertive makes a big difference. I was in New England for the Labour Day weekend, and had no problem finding partners in both Concord (Thursday) and Greenfield. I do see how people could find it cliquey, but I didn't experience it personally; I found both dances to be just as welcoming as my first time in Toronto (which was about a year ago, in the case of both Concord and Toronto I knew no one dancing that night) and there is a world of difference between the two in terms of quality.
I think it's important for people to remember that dancing with new people is good, especially in terms of maintenance of the community, but it also tends to run counter to the the natural tendency to gravitate to people you know.", "timestamp": "1351629294"}, {"author": "Beth", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/274926365961758?comment_id=275090479278680", "anchor": "fb-275090479278680", "service": "fb", "text": "i'm curious how clique-ishness is related to age for a lot of people. another note is that whoever is leading often determines which set you end up in, and i often ended up on either edge set simply because being in the middle sets gave me a higher chance of getting injured on busy nights. out of the few times i've gotten elbowed in the face or stepped on by someone who was not my partner 4 out of 5 were from other sets when i was in a squished middle set. or you ask someone near you at the end of a dance and you just stay where you are. ask a booked friend to dance later if there was a group of new people sitting out so you can split and grab them, it's important to make people feel included especially near the start of the dance. otherwise they sit and watch and think it's really hard and that no=one wants to dance with them. when someone came in with a big group of new people, it would go around the hall that so and so had brought some friends and they needed partners. i think as andrew mentioned it's a combination of people wanting to dance a certain way and age related booking ahead. if all of your friends are in one set and you've booked ahead you're likely going to just grab them and stay in the same line. i danced a contra once that had a pass through between sets. i wonder if the callers could help by doing one dance a night that encouraged set mingling that wasn't a circle dance", "timestamp": "1351629859"}, {"author": "Kevin", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/274926365961758?comment_id=275099639277764", "anchor": "fb-275099639277764", "service": "fb", "text": "I was recently in GFD for the first time in 22 years and had no problem finding partners - but I wore a dance name button (I was the only dancer there with one, I stood out!) and was reasonably assertive. I suspect perceived cliquishness could be worse at larger dances since it's tough to know who is new and who is not, so it's easy not to make the effort to welcome new dancers if you don't recognize half the dancers anyway. At GE FND we have \"new dancer\" buttons for the new folks, so experienced dancers spot newbies to invite to dance. I always try very hard to dance with new dancers the first dance or two especially of the night.", "timestamp": "1351631589"}, {"author": "Robert", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/274926365961758?comment_id=275117732609288", "anchor": "fb-275117732609288", "service": "fb", "text": "Andy, thanks for your thoughtful comments about contra dances. As a less-than-accomplished dancer, I never felt comfortable at Greenfield but enjoyed many smaller venues over the years. Greenfield always had fantastic music and the crowded floor made if very exciting; but not much fun when dancers were downright rude when you flubbed a figure. I am glad to hear that things are changing there; maybe time for me to make another visit.", "timestamp": "1351635183"}, {"author": "David", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/274926365961758?comment_id=275166202604441", "anchor": "fb-275166202604441", "service": "fb", "text": "I don't accept your premise. Define \"successful.\" Another way to think of it: every society has its \"1%\" - do you actually mean to say this is something to celebrate?", "timestamp": "1351646201"}, {"author": "Emily", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/274926365961758?comment_id=275231275931267", "anchor": "fb-275231275931267", "service": "fb", "text": "I would say that the majority of the west coast dancing I've experienced- this means Seattle and Vancouver- could (and should) be considered successful communities, and there isn't really (at least the last I was there) a feeling of cliquishness.
Both places now have thriving dance scenes- the Seattle dance is twice a week with slightly different demographics between the nights, and the Vancouver dance is two time plus per month. People do still have their friends who they love to dance with (myself included), but I haven't felt a sense of cliquishness from either dance.
The size of the hall is somewhat smaller than, for example, the Scout House... Seattle can fit 2 long lines comfortably and 3 passably, which is most usually what happens. Vancouver can fit 3 lines comfortably and 4 passably.
A lot of what I hear from people who support booking ahead all the time is that they come to dance with specific people. Maybe that attitude is different- people still hang out at the break and do still dance with their friends, but they come to dance, not dance with specific people.", "timestamp": "1351665072"}, {"author": "Paul", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/274926365961758?comment_id=275571312563930", "anchor": "fb-275571312563930", "service": "fb", "text": "Great discussion. I think Bronwyn's question about how to measure a successful dance is a good one and will determine how one thinks of the importance of being a welcoming dance. For me, the bottom line is that dancing makes me happy. I used to be part of a chorus, and I loved singing with others, and I wanted to share that feeling with other people. I think musicians, dancers, singers all get that, and there's a great joy when more people can share in these basic human activities. I love how dancing brings different people together, any kind of difference - age, gender, dance ability, political affiliation, race, etc., etc. - and if people of a certain characteristic don't feel welcome, then that's a potential that is not being realized, and a negative IMHO. When I go to a dance, I want to dance with as many different people as possible, especially people who are new, and especially people I've never danced with before. Any activity that brings people together in a fun, social, egalitarian, celebratory setting is a net good. In my experience, maximizing such net goods makes life that much more fulfilling.", "timestamp": "1351732966"}]}