{"items": [{"author": "Mac", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/280878765330295?comment_id=280894948662010", "anchor": "fb-280894948662010", "service": "fb", "text": "The best lesson I learned in debate, or conflict resolution, is to clearly understand your opponent's position, subsume that position and bring it up yourself. Then demonstrate the (irrelevance, wrongness, inadequacy) of his argument. And if you cannot do that, you just might have to consider that he has the winning point of view.
As you observe, what is lacking in a lot of \"debate\" is simple organization of the issues and facts. And this must first take place within one's own mind. A college adviser once said to me, \"Lie to others if you must. But don't lie to yourself. You get into real trouble doing that.\"
Consider politics and litigation, wherein everything that could be done wrong in debating is the usual method: Years ago, during the Clarance Thomas confirmation hearings, Thomas made reference to a \"high tech lynching\" based on racial motivations during the Anita Hill testimony to his sexual harassment of her. Howard Heflin, Senator from Alabama, replied in a deep Alabama accent:
\"Now, Judge Thomas, as old trial lawyers, you and I both know that when the law is on your side, you argue the law. When the facts are on your side, you argue the facts. When you got nothing going for you, you confuse the issue.\"
I shared this with a lawyer who commented, \"That's it.\"", "timestamp": "1333913440"}, {"author": "Andrew", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/280878765330295?comment_id=280895051995333", "anchor": "fb-280895051995333", "service": "fb", "text": "Maybe debate is like dance or music in that sense. You can do these activities competitively, and you might enjoy them, but competition is but one facet of the whole.", "timestamp": "1333913447"}, {"author": "Mac", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/280878765330295?comment_id=280901818661323", "anchor": "fb-280901818661323", "service": "fb", "text": "I have to disagree with your teacher. Debating skills are a tool. Morality and respect make it likely that you will use the tool properly. But the logic and clarity, of mind and speech are critical tools to human interaction. Witnessing wrong debating methods also allows one to recognize such methods used by others. Blathering, and failure to come to the point are usually an indication that the blatherer has no point to make. But I have seen blathering used in litigation to annoy and defocus the opposing litigant. In any case, my belief is that debate club is terrifically useful.", "timestamp": "1333914169"}, {"author": "Richard", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/280878765330295?comment_id=280906568660848", "anchor": "fb-280906568660848", "service": "fb", "text": "I'd like to agree with Walker. I was taught to thoroughly understand and appreciate both points of view, and, in debate, listen carefully to the other side, concede their good points, and argue my own points forthrightly. I certainly don't remember any heckling. I find I can easily apply the same skills in collaborative work. (Judo, another activity I've loved, also depends on loving attention to your \"opponent\" or partner, and I think it helped prepare me for contra dancing!) RAF, co-captain of the Poly Prep debate team, 1961.", "timestamp": "1333914617"}, {"author": "Todd", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/112947709146257842066", "anchor": "gp-1333916042956", "service": "gp", "text": "It can be helpful to be able to identify tricks so that other people can't fool you. And the focus on winning can accomplish something similar to what the courts aim to do. Namely, instead of having everyone try to find the truth themselves, have two sides incentivized to push back against each other, and see which one is able to do so more effectively. If you have people who are not inclined toward truth-seeking anyway, that might actually be more effective.", "timestamp": 1333916042}, {"author": "Kate", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/280878765330295?comment_id=280994998652005", "anchor": "fb-280994998652005", "service": "fb", "text": "You can definitely win a debate using some not-so-great tactics (I've done it! freshman year of high school!!), but in general I found debate helped me with logic and thinking on my feet. Also, there are lots of different potential styles. And even though heckling can be kind of harsh, learning to brush that off is a valuable skill, too!", "timestamp": "1333924780"}, {"author": "Danner", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/280878765330295?comment_id=281069028644602", "anchor": "fb-281069028644602", "service": "fb", "text": "The biggest problem I see with debate is that you continually are put into attack and defense of your position as being correct, and if my eventual goal is to change someone's mind, the worst way I've seen is to attack them continually. This only works on people that are well versed in argument and debate, enough that they do not take your attacks personally. I grew up an a family that debates constantly, so I don't mind it, but I've noticed that many other people do mind.
My current favorite technique is to explore the subject, making sure enough knowledge is known about the subject to make a clear choice, and more often than not, an agreement is reached between the two parties. If not, we identify what extra data would be needed to make a decision, or what opinions/beliefs/morals keep us seeing the same information in a different way.
Just read the other comments, I think I've said the same thing, but the thing I add is that if I hear a differing opinion, I might be wrong, and I would like the other person to understand they might be wrong too, before we get all up in each other's faces about this stuff.", "timestamp": "1333934895"}, {"author": "Josh", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/118273920476267337216", "anchor": "gp-1333936667367", "service": "gp", "text": "It seems like it might be fun as a game, in the same way that lots of games can be fun, and teach you useful skills, but wouldn't be very wise to apply literally to your real-world interactions with real people.", "timestamp": 1333936667}]}