{"items": [{"author": "Dan", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/640619411442?comment_id=640620154952", "anchor": "fb-640620154952", "service": "fb", "text": "In the event of an emergency landing (read: minor crash), you might have an increase of injuries and/or deaths. In the event of turbulence, someone is falling out of bed. Mind you, I'm on your side, but these are just some problems you might encounter on the Kaufing 747", "timestamp": "1386626504"}, {"author": "Scott", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/640619411442?comment_id=640620923412", "anchor": "fb-640620923412", "service": "fb", "text": "Not impossible at all. On larger airplanes like the 777, crew rest areas are bunks in the crown or belly of the airliner (don't remember which, probably could Google it). Might be difficult on a typical 737 but probably doable for at least some section of it.", "timestamp": "1386626998"}, {"author": "Jessica", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/640619411442?comment_id=640622515222", "anchor": "fb-640622515222", "service": "fb", "text": "will there be discount \"seats\" for short people?", "timestamp": "1386627495"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/640619411442?comment_id=640623138972", "anchor": "fb-640623138972", "service": "fb", "text": "@Jessica: makes sense. Not all bunk segments need to be the same length.", "timestamp": "1386627748"}, {"author": "Will", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/115623320734956550423", "anchor": "gp-1386628659809", "service": "gp", "text": "How would people strap themselves into their bunks (or, what would keep them from bouncing around during strong turbulence)?", "timestamp": 1386628659}, {"author": "Todd", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/112947709146257842066", "anchor": "gp-1386628735464", "service": "gp", "text": "What if you didn't want to sleep?", "timestamp": 1386628735}, {"author": "David", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/640619411442?comment_id=640625010222", "anchor": "fb-640625010222", "service": "fb", "text": "Dan, the bunks could have straps that hold people in place just like seatbelts do now.
Jeff, I was thinking about this a little while ago and came up with something similar that only requires one aisle. Basically, most of the bunks are perpendicular to the direction of the aisle, except for the top bunks which are longitudinal, roughly halfway between your A and C (or D and K) bunks. On wider craft, there could be center bunks like yours and side bunks like mine.", "timestamp": "1386628738"}, {"author": "David", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/640619411442?comment_id=640625673892", "anchor": "fb-640625673892", "service": "fb", "text": "Also, there are a lot of craft that do the same route eastbound each night and westbound each day. It might be difficult (though not impossible) to figure out the right balance of seats versus bunks for those.", "timestamp": "1386629143"}, {"author": "Ross", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/640619411442?comment_id=640629256712", "anchor": "fb-640629256712", "service": "fb", "text": "The overhead bins are always packed on my flights. Why do you think there is too much storage?", "timestamp": "1386631183"}, {"author": "Molly", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/640619411442?comment_id=640630818582", "anchor": "fb-640630818582", "service": "fb", "text": "Jessica the idea of basing plane price on person size is already a thorny one (see http://friendofmarilyn.com/2013/04/05/flying-while-fat/ for example or google it)", "timestamp": "1386631893"}, {"author": "Joe", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/640619411442?comment_id=640636053092", "anchor": "fb-640636053092", "service": "fb", "text": "I've thought of this for many years. I've thought the best thing to do would be model it after those Japanese cube hotels. Straps could be provided to ensure people don't fly around. I'd be willing to pay more for a laying down cube.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capsule_hotel", "timestamp": "1386634280"}, {"author": "David", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/640619411442?comment_id=640637445302", "anchor": "fb-640637445302", "service": "fb", "text": "Ah, like in The Fifth Element! http://www.sitegeist.com/.../moviegifs/fifthelement.gif", "timestamp": "1386635231"}, {"author": "David German", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/111229345142780712481", "anchor": "gp-1386638565641", "service": "gp", "text": "I think this would be awesome on red-eyes but hard to sell during the day. \u00a0If you can only fly these planes at night, will they be much more economical than lie-flat business class?", "timestamp": 1386638565}, {"author": "Todd", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/112947709146257842066", "anchor": "gp-1386639065311", "service": "gp", "text": "It's possible that if you fly them ALL night, you can get some market share by flying when other carriers aren't, though you'd have to make enough to make it worthwhile for the airports to stay open. I'm confused as it is by the hours airports have, so I don't really know what the impact would be.", "timestamp": 1386639065}, {"author": "Will", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/115623320734956550423", "anchor": "gp-1386640719284", "service": "gp", "text": "Would there still be enough room in the bunk to sit up on the bunk?", "timestamp": 1386640719}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/103013777355236494008", "anchor": "gp-1386642516098", "service": "gp", "text": "@Will\n\u00a0\"what would keep them from bouncing around during strong turbulence\"\n
\n
\nWe currently have life-flat seats in business class as well as bunks for the flight crew on some planes, so I think this is solved somehow.", "timestamp": 1386642516}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/103013777355236494008", "anchor": "gp-1386642623351", "service": "gp", "text": "@Will\n\u00a0\"Would there still be enough room in the bunk to sit up on the bunk?\"\n
\n
\nI need 35 inches to sit straight up, so as diagrammed there would not be enough room. \u00a0You could recline without sitting up all the way, though.", "timestamp": 1386642623}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/640619411442?comment_id=640652879372", "anchor": "fb-640652879372", "service": "fb", "text": "@Ross: \"Why do you think there is too much storage?\"
While the overhead bins are packed the large cargo area under the seats is mostly empty. That's the main place I think there's too much available storage.
(Overpacked overhead bins come from airlines charging for checked bags, which comes from it taking a long time to load and unload baggage plus the preventing-terrorism requirement that if someone misses a plane their bag be taken off.)", "timestamp": "1386642763"}, {"author": "Jessica", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/640619411442?comment_id=640653902322", "anchor": "fb-640653902322", "service": "fb", "text": "Molly: i agree. i'm already receiving a discount: free upgrade to more comfort sleeping in tiny airplane seats. charging people varying rates based on weight is just as bad as charging based on height. but only one of them would result in public outrage. why?", "timestamp": "1386643132"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/640619411442?comment_id=640659261582", "anchor": "fb-640659261582", "service": "fb", "text": "@Jessica: \"only one of them would result in public outrage\"
In one case we're charging people more for something that helps them get ahead in society, in the other it's the opposite.", "timestamp": "1386645429"}, {"author": "David", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/640619411442?comment_id=640660035032", "anchor": "fb-640660035032", "service": "fb", "text": "Jessica: It's also much easier to sacrifice comfort and get a ticket for a smaller compartment than to change weight.", "timestamp": "1386645744"}, {"author": "David", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/640619411442?comment_id=640660239622", "anchor": "fb-640660239622", "service": "fb", "text": "Jeff - what do you mean by that last remark? I am having a hard time parsing your post.", "timestamp": "1386645844"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/640619411442?comment_id=640660793512", "anchor": "fb-640660793512", "service": "fb", "text": "Sorry I was unclear. In general, being tall helps you economically and socially while being fat makes things harder. So a discount for short people is in a sense fair, bringing us back towards a more equal society, while a discount for thin people is a benefit to people who don't need the help. Result: outrage over charging fat people more, minimal outrage over charging tall people more.", "timestamp": "1386646091"}, {"author": "David", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/640619411442?comment_id=640661956182", "anchor": "fb-640661956182", "service": "fb", "text": "Okay, I get that. However, being tall as a physical impediment to comfort is nothing new - and above a certain height being tall isn't a social advantage. I have no idea about its economic advantage, but I don't think the richest people in the world are especially tall on average.
I personally am wary of any institutional efforts to enforce \"fairness\" by way of correcting perceived inequalities that result from absolutely unchangeable attributes. Being white is a social and economic advantage in America, but would you advocate charging white people more?", "timestamp": "1386646773"}, {"author": "Don", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/640619411442?comment_id=640674451142", "anchor": "fb-640674451142", "service": "fb", "text": "Re: \"At the same time the current deck-with-seats configuration gives much more room for cargo than is really needed.\" - maybe for the passengers, but not for the airline. That space carries other commercial cargo.", "timestamp": "1386651242"}, {"author": "Jen", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/640619411442?comment_id=640674855332", "anchor": "fb-640674855332", "service": "fb", "text": "Not to imply that I would be in favor of counter-discrimination against tall people, but they totally do get an observable economic advantage: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15161403", "timestamp": "1386651434"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/640619411442?comment_id=640700309322", "anchor": "fb-640700309322", "service": "fb", "text": "@David: \"would you advocate charging white people more?\"
Kind of yes. Specifically I think the best way to implement affirmative action would be a tax on hiring white people. (You'd run experiments to determine the level of pro-white bias in hiring (identical candidates apply etc) then set the tax to the point where this bias is countered. As the bias (ideally) decreases over time, experiments pick this up and you lower your tax.)", "timestamp": "1386680886"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/640619411442?comment_id=640700643652", "anchor": "fb-640700643652", "service": "fb", "text": "@Don: \"That space carries other commercial cargo.\"
My guess is that the cargo space on passenger airliners is much less valuable than passenger space, but we should find out.", "timestamp": "1386681152"}, {"author": "Michael", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/640619411442?comment_id=640702235462", "anchor": "fb-640702235462", "service": "fb", "text": "Jeff, overhead compartments have been overcrowded since long before airlines started charging for checked baggage.", "timestamp": "1386682075"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/640619411442?comment_id=640702385162", "anchor": "fb-640702385162", "service": "fb", "text": "@Michael: Flying occasionally for work I've noticed that we've gone from \"very crowded\" to \"the last 1/4 of people getting on the plane should expect to have to gate-check their bags\".", "timestamp": "1386682200"}, {"author": "Jessica", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/640619411442?comment_id=640704036852", "anchor": "fb-640704036852", "service": "fb", "text": "hmm. i was thinking that charging tall people more (not in choosing different compartments, but required regardless, like the charge for fat passengers) would result in public outrage, whereas charging fat people is regarded as less \"objectionable\" since weight is regarded as more \"changeable\" (despite studies showing a strong hereditary contribution to \"fat\")", "timestamp": "1386683409"}, {"author": "David", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/640619411442?comment_id=640705304312", "anchor": "fb-640705304312", "service": "fb", "text": "But Jeff, the problem in that example is that you have to define who is \"white,\" and then you're making laws based on race, and then your country is terrible.", "timestamp": "1386684598"}, {"author": "Arthur", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/640619411442?comment_id=640708517872", "anchor": "fb-640708517872", "service": "fb", "text": "We have enough problems with trying to enforce the affirmative action laws we have.
I agree in substance with Jeff's idea but it'd be impossible to implement -- not just in the sense that people wouldn't agree to do it, but once you did do it the process of determining experimentally the \"real level of baseline discrimination\" becomes impossibly politicized and gameable. And the existence of a law itself forms a kind of messaging -- I think that the ability of affirmative action opponents to use the existence of affirmative action to publicly undermine the perception of competence of minority professionals is bad enough, but it's even worse if you create something that can easily be spun as \"a tax on the valuable resource of white employees\".", "timestamp": "1386686992"}, {"author": "Arthur", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/640619411442?comment_id=640708612682", "anchor": "fb-640708612682", "service": "fb", "text": "I mean, in the strictly equitable sense of justice, the most just thing to do, and the most effective way to actually equalize the relationship between whites and nonwhites, would be for the nonwhites to actually conquer the country and make whites the oppressed underclass for a generation or two.
But that's the difference between justice and decency. The reason Nelson Mandela is such a saint is that he had the opportunity to do this and he refused to on the grounds of mercy. (Well, okay, on the real grounds that the white power structure outside South Africa would've shut him out of the global economy and gone on to crush him like a bug if he'd pursued punitive actions against whites. But we go with what makes a good story.)", "timestamp": "1386687083"}, {"author": "David", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/640619411442?comment_id=640708712482", "anchor": "fb-640708712482", "service": "fb", "text": "Hey, it works for Zimbabwe?", "timestamp": "1386687155"}, {"author": "Arthur", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/640619411442?comment_id=640709910082", "anchor": "fb-640709910082", "service": "fb", "text": "Zimbabwe's a case in point -- not just the usual point people make that the Zimbabwean government is not very nice, but also the point that countries don't actually exist in a vacuum, and when you try to punish rich white people they tend to just leave and take their stuff with them and run off into the white-owned Rest of the World. And then the Rest of the World makes you into a pariah and everything sucks.
A lot of the hardcore Left has been talking in the wake of Mandela's death about how worthless, in the end, the \"liberation\" of South Africa was for the average South African black person.
But that's not really on Mandela -- like I said, if Mandela really had tried to actually change things he'd've been crushed like a bug. All the people now singing hosannas for him would've instead lumped him in with Mugabe as a \"rogue dictator\".", "timestamp": "1386687805"}, {"author": "Christopher", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/640619411442?comment_id=640711362172", "anchor": "fb-640711362172", "service": "fb", "text": "South Africa was ostracized and a pariah because of apartheid and the result of isolation was they developed their own industries. I think the examples of Zim and SA show very clearly what happens when you try to \"actually change things\" vs working with existing structured.
And I think the biggest problem is that many people (e.g. business .people) will want to sit up. And what about meals? What if every other row rotated up and the other down to create reclining options? Would reduce windows but would allow a period of sitting and of lying ( though .you have to switch at the same time as your neighbors)", "timestamp": "1386688791"}, {"author": "Arthur", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/640619411442?comment_id=640711736422", "anchor": "fb-640711736422", "service": "fb", "text": "Chris, is that an attempt at defending SA? SA as a country is fairly prosperous, sure. It was like that before apartheid ended too. Most of that prosperity goes to the tiny minority of elite white landowners and business owners. It was like that before apartheid ended too.
SA is a great example of how if you carefully avoid upsetting the status quo, the status quo stays in place. Which is great, if you're a white investor or whatever (and they were the ones calling the shots). I suppose it depends on what your goal is.", "timestamp": "1386689057"}, {"author": "David", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/640619411442?comment_id=640712494902", "anchor": "fb-640712494902", "service": "fb", "text": "Well on the flip side, all the white rugby players sing the full national anthem with gusto now. And the captain of the Sevens team (Kyle Brown, who despite his last name is a blonde white guy) dedicated their tournament win over the weekend to Madiba.", "timestamp": "1386689584"}, {"author": "Arthur", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/640619411442?comment_id=640712584722", "anchor": "fb-640712584722", "service": "fb", "text": "Yeah, and the PotUS is a black dude so racism is clearly over in the United States too.", "timestamp": "1386689656"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/640619411442?comment_id=640718772322", "anchor": "fb-640718772322", "service": "fb", "text": "@David: \"you have to define who is 'white,' and then you're making laws based on race\"
What matters for discrimination purposes is public perception. This isn't that hard to measure.", "timestamp": "1386692513"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/640619411442?comment_id=640719750362", "anchor": "fb-640719750362", "service": "fb", "text": "@Arthur: \"We have enough problems with trying to enforce the affirmative action laws we have.\"
That's why I think different ones would work better. It's really hard to tell whether a given case of someone not being hired is because of discrimination, especially as people get better at adapting to the law and stop being openly racist in writing.", "timestamp": "1386693047"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/640619411442?comment_id=640720349162", "anchor": "fb-640720349162", "service": "fb", "text": "@Arthur: \"in the strictly equitable sense of justice, the most just thing to do, and the most effective way to actually equalize the relationship between whites and nonwhites, would be for the nonwhites to actually conquer the country and make whites the oppressed underclass for a generation or two\"
This is why I don't think \"justice\" is the main thing we should be going for. The primary reason to have affirmative action in employment isn't that slavery was horrible and so the government should make it up to people who look like the descendants of slaves, but that there's a racist bias in hiring. For example: http://www.nber.org/digest/sep03/w9873.html", "timestamp": "1386693324"}, {"author": "Michael", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/110347619670230195222", "anchor": "gp-1386697355631", "service": "gp", "text": "Pretty sure you can't just invade the checked baggage/cargo space like that, especially on flights long enough to warrant sleeper service.\u00a0 People travel with nonzero amounts of stuff.\u00a0 You certainly can't zero out both the checked baggage volume and the overhead storage area.\n
\n
\nA 737-800 is slightly longer (98 ft vs. 85 ft.) and approximately the same width as a single-level train car.\u00a0 6-berth couchette layout will sleep 60 per car, sleeper layout will reduce that capacity to 36 at the densest.\u00a0 (I'm using Deutsche Bahn's City Night Line fleet as my baseline.)\u00a0 I don't think couchette density is achievable on an aircraft, but even if you somehow \ndoubled\n it, you're still going to be 30%+ below the capacity of a traditionally laid-out coach.\u00a0 At that point, it would be much easier and more lucrative to save the capital costs of having a dedicated sleeper plane fleet, and allow people to simply buy entire rows of three on standard planes flying redeye routes, for nominal upgrade charges.", "timestamp": 1386697355}, {"author": "Todd", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/112947709146257842066", "anchor": "gp-1386697553869", "service": "gp", "text": "Buying a row of three is in no way going to give the same effect as flying in a sleeper plane. Not only are rows not really wide enough for most people to fit, the contours of the seats don't come close to forming a smooth sleeping surface.", "timestamp": 1386697553}, {"author": "David", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/640619411442?comment_id=640728737352", "anchor": "fb-640728737352", "service": "fb", "text": "\"What matters for discrimination purposes is public perception. This isn't that hard to measure.\" I think it's EXTREMELY hard to measure, actually, since it's so subjective.", "timestamp": "1386697921"}, {"author": "David", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/640619411442?comment_id=640728797232", "anchor": "fb-640728797232", "service": "fb", "text": "What if someone identifies as black but isn't recognized as such? Now you have a government telling someone that his or her own self-identity isn't valid.", "timestamp": "1386697957"}, {"author": "David", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/640619411442?comment_id=640729091642", "anchor": "fb-640729091642", "service": "fb", "text": "Arthur - all I meant is that 20 years ago, they would have refused to sing anything other than Die Stem Van Suid-Afrika. Racism isn't like pregnancy, it's not a binary. A partly-non-white president of the US doesn't mean there's NO racism, it just means there is LESS. And I take that not as a sign of accomplishment, but as a sign of encouragement that continuing to combat racism ACTIVELY will continue to be effective.", "timestamp": "1386698109"}, {"author": "Michael", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/110347619670230195222", "anchor": "gp-1386698261208", "service": "gp", "text": "Right, but I was treating the constraint of costing closer to a coach seat on a daylight schedule than current lie-flat solutions as fixed.\u00a0 The airline does not care that 3-across is not actually a lie-flat sleeping surface if the cost to provide a lie-flat sleeping surface is prohibitive.", "timestamp": 1386698261}, {"author": "Will", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/115623320734956550423", "anchor": "gp-1386699076350", "service": "gp", "text": "@Jeff Kaufman\n\u00a0The current lie-flat restraints assume that you can return your chair to an upright position, which you are required to do during times when turbulence is likely to be a problem.", "timestamp": 1386699076}, {"author": "David German", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/111229345142780712481", "anchor": "gp-1386700086686", "service": "gp", "text": "Regarding 3-across sleepers:\n
\n
\nhttp://www.airnewzealand.com/economy-skycouch\n
\n
\n3x coach fare is maybe not that much cheaper than 1x business fare. \u00a0However, for two people who want to lie down and don't mind snuggling, it's surely cheaper than 2x business fare.", "timestamp": 1386700086}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/640619411442?comment_id=640741561652", "anchor": "fb-640741561652", "service": "fb", "text": "@David: \"I think it's EXTREMELY hard to measure, actually, since it's so subjective. ... What if someone identifies as black but isn't recognized as such? Now you have a government telling someone that his or her own self-identity isn't valid.\"
What we're looking for is something like \"would this person be perceived as X in a hiring decision?\", not \"is this person objectively race X?\" or \"does this person consider themself as race X?\". You could record a short video clip of them saying some sample phrase then give that to 100 randomly selected people to categorize.", "timestamp": "1386704037"}, {"author": "Michael", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/110347619670230195222", "anchor": "gp-1386707282571", "service": "gp", "text": "Also, \n@Jeff Kaufman\n , your design commits the cardinal sin of not being evacuable in the 90-second standard.", "timestamp": 1386707282}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/103013777355236494008", "anchor": "gp-1386708487999", "service": "gp", "text": "@MN\n\u00a0Are current planes actually evacuable in 90s or just in controlled tests? \u00a0How long did it take for everyone to get off Asiana 214?\n
\n
\nSeparately, I'm not at all sure that this design would take longer to evacuate than the current layout.", "timestamp": 1386708487}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/103013777355236494008", "anchor": "gp-1386708609180", "service": "gp", "text": "@MN\n\u00a0\"You certainly can't zero out both the checked baggage volume and the overhead storage area.\"\n
\n
\nThe idea is that there would be a shelf at the foot-end of the bunk which your bags could go on. \u00a0Your feet would go under the shelf when sleeping.", "timestamp": 1386708609}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/103013777355236494008", "anchor": "gp-1386708975112", "service": "gp", "text": "@MN\n\u00a0Comparisons to trains aren't ideal: plane space is much more expensive so we already have densities on planes that we wouldn't consider on trains.", "timestamp": 1386708975}, {"author": "Michael", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/110347619670230195222", "anchor": "gp-1386747537257", "service": "gp", "text": "@Jeff Kaufman\n I think most people are clear on the concept that the controlled tests, even given the conditions placed on them, are going to be somewhat faster and more orderly than a real-world evacuation, but outside specifically dicey situations like US1549, we're not talking about orders-of-magnitude difference.\u00a0 \nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIaovi1JWyY\n is the actual video of the Airbus A380 evacution test (taken with low-light cameras, since the only available light in the cabin is from the floor lighting), and \nhttp://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2006/03/how_did_airbus_ace_its_airplane_evacuation_test.html\n gives more information on the details of thetest, including how conditions are made more realistic, and how many people were injured during the test (33).\u00a0 In your proposed layout, the occupants of berths a, c, d, e, f, and k are going to jump down from a good height, and injure whoever they land on in the aisle, if not themselves.\u00a0 And that assumes they can get down unassisted at all.\n
\n
\nTo expand my objections, you can't zero out checked bag space because there are many objects you can't allow in a passenger cabin that people want to take with them, or are oversized for the in-cabin storage (either individually or collectively), and so need to be checked.\u00a0 A cubby space at the foot end is grossly insufficient volumetrically and also insecure. Also, not all of that below-deck space is available; there's landing gear, the center fuel tank, and other mechanical items that take up some of that space.\n
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\nIf train space is less expensive, tell that to Pullman, Amtrak, British Rail, and DB; the train companies have not been trying to optimize train layouts for the last century and a half for fun.\u00a0 Amtrak's Viewliner II order (in progress) costs north of $2.2MM per car, and most of those aren't even sleepers. (55/130 are baggage cars, which are almost but not quite bare metal boxes.)\u00a0 Train space is just differently-constrained.\u00a0 And the passenger density on a Shinkansen standard-class car isn't much lower than what you see on a 737 (3+2 vs. 3+3 seating), although most non-Asian intercity carriers have gone to more spacious 2+2 seating and generous seat pitch, to compete on comfort.\u00a0\u00a0 Even there, Northeastern US and European commuter carriers are almost uniformly 3+2 seating, and Amtrak still leases that equipment for NY-DC Holiday Extras on Thanksgiving Sunday, so it still lives.", "timestamp": 1386747537}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/103013777355236494008", "anchor": "gp-1386762664433", "service": "gp", "text": "@MN\n\u00a0\"the occupants of berths a, c, d, e, f, and k are going to jump down from a good height, and injure whoever they land on in the aisle, if not themselves\"\n
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\nThere would be ladders for getting into the top bunks, and people would use the same ladders for getting out. \u00a0They don't need to jump in or out of the bunks.\n
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\n\"A cubby space at the foot end is grossly insufficient volumetrically\"\n
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\nReally? \u00a0Let's say we leave 12 vertical inches for feet, which gives us 19 vertical inches for baggage. \u00a0Horizontally we could take maybe 2 feet? \u00a0The width is >20 inches, so we have 19x20x24. \u00a0That's more than double the current overhead allowance.\n
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\nFor things that are required to be checked (firearms, knives) and oversized baggage there could be a small checked-baggage area.\n
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\nPart of why I think this is workable is that buses made a similar transition recently. \u00a0The double decker buses Megabus etc use now have much lower baggage compartment capacity while increasing passengers.\n
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\n\"not all of that below-deck space is available; there's landing gear, the center fuel tank, and other mechanical items that take up some of that space.\"\n
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\nFor those portions of the plane you could use a standard layout.", "timestamp": 1386762664}]}