{"items": [{"author": "Phillip", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/413192072076077?comment_id=413209222074362", "anchor": "fb-413209222074362", "service": "fb", "text": "Jeff, there is the Mathew 6:3 prohibition that kind of gets in the way: \u201cBut when you give to the poor, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4so that your giving will be in secret; and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.", "timestamp": "1348241071"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/413192072076077?comment_id=413258005402817", "anchor": "fb-413258005402817", "service": "fb", "text": "@Phillip: while I don't know the bible that well (and being agnostic don't use it as a source of moral guidance), the interpretation I've heard is that it was about giving within a community. Giving to individuals known to the donor does carry a potential harm if the recipient knows who helped them. It could be quite large, perhaps larger than the benefit of inspiring more giving by others. While I'm advocating making the fact of your donation public, people who get nets from the AMF don't know it was because of specific benefactor they should feel indebted to. If you're making local donations I think making it public that you gave $X to individuals and groups over the course of the year and including something sufficiently vague about the purpose would protect the recipients while still encouraging giving from others.
Another aspect is whether you're giving because you want people to honor you or because you want to help people. I do think it's important not to let your giving go to your head and start choosing what to give to because of how it will make you look instead of what effect it will have. But the opposite extreme of keeping everything secret so that you know for sure you're motivated by pure motives turns out in practice to mean that lots of people don't give because they don't think of it as common. So you want some balance. Neither loud announcements aimed to acquire public adulation nor fully anonymous donation that maintains the impression that few people give.
Just as Christians list donations on tax returns, which a literal reading of 6:3 also prohibits, I think they should also make a simple record of their donations publicly available.", "timestamp": "1348250326"}, {"author": "Phillip", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/413192072076077?comment_id=413282155400402", "anchor": "fb-413282155400402", "service": "fb", "text": "Sadly, as a preparer of tax returns I can tell you that giving is indeed uncommon, but among my religious friends I am fairly certain it is common (people talk about the obligation, never about what they give). I wasn't necessarily advocating the position (though it certainly guides me to a degree), but I was observing that it is a significant part of the culture. It was a part that I assumed was not in the center of your radar. While being a geek, I give electronically, I also write small checks each week in church to be seen visibly giving so as to increase the number of givers optically (otherwise we slide into its being ok to not contribute).", "timestamp": "1348255860"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/413192072076077?comment_id=413294718732479", "anchor": "fb-413294718732479", "service": "fb", "text": "\"I also write small checks each week in church to be seen visibly giving so as to increase the number of givers optically (otherwise we slide into its being ok to not contribute).\"
This is pretty much what I'm advocating, except for donations unassociated with membership in an institution. When you're all in church together you're subtly aware of the people around you giving, in a way that you're not when donations are made by independently sending in cheques.", "timestamp": "1348258910"}, {"author": "Phillip", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/413192072076077?comment_id=413302052065079", "anchor": "fb-413302052065079", "service": "fb", "text": "One of the many purposes of fund raising events", "timestamp": "1348260512"}, {"author": "Julia", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/413192072076077?comment_id=413314195397198", "anchor": "fb-413314195397198", "service": "fb", "text": "People pick and choose from scripture if they follow it at all. They could pick Matthew 5:15 instead: Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.", "timestamp": "1348262742"}, {"author": "Phillip", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/413192072076077?comment_id=413327795395838", "anchor": "fb-413327795395838", "service": "fb", "text": "Julia, I was actually going to point that out as well. One should look at the bible as a system, not a series of point solutions. There is atension between these to quotes, I my interpretation is one should end up somewhere in the middle. 6:3 warns against both the obvious charity to show off and the subtle seduction of feeling superior because of giving, while 5:15 demands leadership in the community, which certainly includes helping others to understand their obligations.", "timestamp": "1348266049"}, {"author": "Todd", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/413192072076077?comment_id=413372155391402", "anchor": "fb-413372155391402", "service": "fb", "text": "Jeff, I think you're giving Phil's point too much credit in light of your stated values and goals. In terms of the results, it doesn't matter what motivates people to give. And while it's possible that donations would be inefficient if everyone was competing for status via charity, I don't see any reason to think it would be more inefficient than current giving (for one thing, I'd argue that plenty of current giving is status-seeking already). In fact, if you could demonstrate to others that your giving was more efficient/effective, that might well be status-generating in such a system. On the whole I think driving people to look at giving as status-raising would move the world much closer to where you want it to be.", "timestamp": "1348277391"}, {"author": "Todd", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/413192072076077?comment_id=413372272058057", "anchor": "fb-413372272058057", "service": "fb", "text": "(I do think that the exception regarding people you know personally is a good point)", "timestamp": "1348277425"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/413192072076077?comment_id=413393222055962", "anchor": "fb-413393222055962", "service": "fb", "text": "@Todd: \"it doesn't matter what motivates people to give\"
If people act the same, then yes, motivation doesn't matter. Someone who is giving to help people will give differently, however, than one giving to look good (or giving to feel good). That's why I think ideally giving isn't driven by status seeking (as I wrote to Phillip). But I also agree with you that if people were to do more \"competing for status via charity\" that would be better than the current system, and status is a very powerful motivator.", "timestamp": "1348283037"}]}