{"items": [{"author": "Taviy", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/211533602295431?comment_id=211567935625331", "anchor": "fb-211567935625331", "service": "fb", "text": "This, of course, assuming the government won't use your voluntary donation to start another war...", "timestamp": "1335362629"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/211533602295431?comment_id=211606628954795", "anchor": "fb-211606628954795", "service": "fb", "text": "@Tavi: Is the government more likely to start a war if it has more money? My impression is that \"starve the beast\" doesn't work.
Regardless, if that's your concern then you should be for tax cuts not increases, on the grounds that this makes the government less likely to go to war.", "timestamp": "1335366090"}, {"author": "Taviy", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/211533602295431?comment_id=211622518953206", "anchor": "fb-211622518953206", "service": "fb", "text": "My point merely being that the government is as likely to use revenues in ways we are opposed to (funding war, bailing out corporations) as it is to use them in way we consider positive; therefore despite the government's considerably larger reach and arguably efficient organization, the likelihood of money being used in ways that build community is greater when giving charitably to nonprofits.", "timestamp": "1335367273"}, {"author": "Joshua", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/211533602295431?comment_id=211631275618997", "anchor": "fb-211631275618997", "service": "fb", "text": "1. wanting taxes to be fair.", "timestamp": "1335367959"}, {"author": "Joshua", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/211533602295431?comment_id=211632025618922", "anchor": "fb-211632025618922", "service": "fb", "text": "2. Individuals voluntarily increasing the amount they pay in taxes will have a very small impact. Raising taxes can potentially have a big impact. If I'm going to pay more, I'd like it to have a decent chance of making a difference.", "timestamp": "1335368050"}, {"author": "opted out", "source_link": "#", "anchor": "unknown", "service": "unknown", "text": "this user has requested that their comments not be shown here", "timestamp": "1335371746"}, {"author": "George", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/211533602295431?comment_id=211709412277850", "anchor": "fb-211709412277850", "service": "fb", "text": "Honestly, Jeff, I think your question is a bit silly. The whole point of taxes is that they are mandatory and apply to lots of people at once. I want a carbon tax for everyone, not just for me (or any single person). Such a tax would only provide a benefit if it applied to everyone in the country. I also want a more redistributive tax code. Taxing one person, whether it is me or someone else, is simply not achieving my goal. I could want higher taxes and think that current government expenditures do more harm than good, these are not inconsistent (I am not saying I necessarily believe this). Even if I had an income that I believed should be taxed more, donating my money to the government would be worthless. It IS a collective action problem and asserting that it isn't doesn't show anything.", "timestamp": "1335373671"}, {"author": "George", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/211533602295431?comment_id=211715885610536", "anchor": "fb-211715885610536", "service": "fb", "text": "On an unrelated note, I hate that the US tax code has a charitable deduction because I view it as a way for wealthier people to avoid paying taxes (obviously they have to use up money anyway, but they can avoid giving it to the government).", "timestamp": "1335373828"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/211533602295431?comment_id=211740262274765", "anchor": "fb-211740262274765", "service": "fb", "text": "@Elliot: you're right, it is a prisoner's dilemma.", "timestamp": "1335376087"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/211533602295431?comment_id=211744835607641", "anchor": "fb-211744835607641", "service": "fb", "text": "@George: For most things the government does there are roughly linear returns. Each additional dollar the government spends on schools, roads, paying down the debt, Afghanistan, food stamps, etc does about as much good as the previous and next dollar. Global warming and carbon taxes might be nonlinear, but that's not most of what the government does. So it's not the case that the money spent on government is only useful if there's a lot of it.
I do agree that it's a collective action problem, though, in that we're only willing to give up on our own spending in as much as others will give up on theirs. (This is my second paragraph.)", "timestamp": "1335376362"}, {"author": "George", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/211533602295431?comment_id=211758395606285", "anchor": "fb-211758395606285", "service": "fb", "text": "Jeff, take my carbon tax example or my progressive taxation example. Suppose I want a revenue neutral change to the tax code that makes it more progressive. Or a revenue neutral carbon tax. With these taxes, the government revenue doesn't change so how is it relevant that some things governments spend money on they can get more of with a little more money?", "timestamp": "1335376967"}, {"author": "George", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/211533602295431?comment_id=211768198938638", "anchor": "fb-211768198938638", "service": "fb", "text": "The government is not equivalent to some giant charity either. I am delighted to pay taxes, but very reluctant to donate to charities, even though a substantial fraction of my taxes might go to things I don't like.", "timestamp": "1335377707"}, {"author": "George", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/211533602295431?comment_id=211773808938077", "anchor": "fb-211773808938077", "service": "fb", "text": "There are two components to wanting taxes raised on some segment of the taxpayers. The first is, I think that segment of taxpayers should shoulder more of the burden of generating revenue for the government. This is independent of what the government spends the money on. It is about who is shouldering the burden for the existing services. Also, I might think that the total revenue of the government should be higher because I have ideas for new ways to spend government revenues. This presupposes that the government isn't spending on those things the way I like right now and to a large extent this will not change if the government gets more money. Suppose I want them to fund a large new particle accelerator in America. This isn't going to happen just because government tax revenues increase by x%. It will only happen if people specifically lobby to raise taxes to fund the specific project I want. To summarize, there are two sides to a desire to have some segment have higher taxes. Side 1 is I think that segment should shoulder more of the burden of paying for things the government does, irrespective of what it is the government is doing. Side 2 is that the government isn't allocating funds the way I want them to and won't have sufficient revenue to do what I want. The first problem is only fixed if most of the people I think *should* have a higher tax burden are forced to have one. The second one is much harder to fix than just increasing government revenue.", "timestamp": "1335378305"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/211533602295431?comment_id=211907255591399", "anchor": "fb-211907255591399", "service": "fb", "text": "@George: \"government is not equivalent to some giant charity\"
I don't understand why not.", "timestamp": "1335389993"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/211533602295431?comment_id=211908258924632", "anchor": "fb-211908258924632", "service": "fb", "text": "@George: \"revenue neutral change\"
True. The argument I'm responding to only applies in cases where someone wants revenue positive changes.", "timestamp": "1335390110"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/211533602295431?comment_id=211910252257766", "anchor": "fb-211910252257766", "service": "fb", "text": "@George: \"The first problem is only fixed if most of the people I think *should* have a higher tax burden are forced to have one\"
We're having a confusing discussion because you're arguing against a position I'm also arguing against. I don't believe everyone who wants higher taxes on group X and is a member of group X should voluntarily pay higher taxes, and I tried to explain why in my post.", "timestamp": "1335390328"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/211533602295431?comment_id=211910605591064", "anchor": "fb-211910605591064", "service": "fb", "text": "(Which means my intro-tagline was a poor choice.)", "timestamp": "1335390371"}, {"author": "Todd", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/112947709146257842066", "anchor": "gp-1335403780437", "service": "gp", "text": "I think I threw up in my mouth a little =P", "timestamp": 1335403780}, {"author": "David Chudzicki", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/106120852580068301475", "anchor": "gp-1335412047410", "service": "gp", "text": "I think I agree with some of the FB commenters: it's totally unclear what the marginal effect of a donation to the government is. If it were known to be \"more services\", that's one thing. But maybe it's \"more tax breaks for other people\"?", "timestamp": 1335412047}]}