{"items": [{"author": "Alex", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/100936518160252317727", "anchor": "gp-1322837822185", "service": "gp", "text": "I mean, if you are just looking for calories, can't beat a jumbo size tin of vegetable oil -- 1.25 gal for $12 gets you 40,000 cal, about 3/5ths the price of peanut butter -- though I don't think you'd be able to survive very long on it. You'd need to use it with something else.\n
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\nMost of the stuff you listed in your spreadsheet is canned, jarred, or tinned wet food. How about non-perishable dry goods? Rice? Dry beans? Regular peanuts? If you can count on the water, you can soak beans cold, and you could also probably soak rice cold into something edible. These things might last longer than peanut butter, too.", "timestamp": 1322837822}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/103013777355236494008", "anchor": "gp-1322841553110", "service": "gp", "text": "@Alex\n All those dry foods are usually cooked, so I wasn't thinking about them. Soaking beans cold can be dangerous because there's a toxin that needs to be killed by heat. [1] It looks like you might be able to choose kinds of beans that don't have that toxin, though. Dry beans aren't as good as peanut butter, because while they're the same cost per gram of protein the peanut butter needs 650 additional calories but the dry beans need 1360.\n
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\nIf soaking rice gets you something edible, that beats all the other calorie sources I was looking at before. I just checked pasta, and it's a little better than that as well.\n
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\n[1] \nhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phytohaemagglutinin", "timestamp": 1322841553}, {"author": "David", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/283624065013146?comment_id=283702571671962", "anchor": "fb-283702571671962", "service": "fb", "text": "That estimate of water is really high. If you use water only for drinking (use hand sanitizer, don't wash your hands with water), don't eat much salt or carbs, and you're careful not to sweat, 2L per person per day should be pretty comfortable and 1L per person per day would probably keep you sane for a while. Of course, the more water, the better, as long as the bottles don't freeze and explode.", "timestamp": "1322844484"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/283624065013146?comment_id=283703445005208", "anchor": "fb-283703445005208", "service": "fb", "text": "2L is about half a gallon, so you don't save that much by trying to cut down on the water.", "timestamp": "1322844586"}, {"author": "David", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/283624065013146?comment_id=283707421671477", "anchor": "fb-283707421671477", "service": "fb", "text": "I was thinking more about saving space and weight than money. I guess if your store is in a closet or something it doesn't really matter. Also, hand-sanitizer is still a good investment to make the supplies you do have last longer and keep you from getting sick.", "timestamp": "1322845135"}, {"author": "Kiran", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/283624065013146?comment_id=283750971667122", "anchor": "fb-283750971667122", "service": "fb", "text": "It's actually unlikely that a city dweller would not have access to sources of water. (Certainly in none of the extended power outages I've experienced has tap water gone away, and I live a few miles from both a reservoir and a river.) So it might be a better choice to invest in a good filter and a UV sterilization kit. And even if water were unavailable, there's plenty of Diet Coke in the world. :-)
And I'm surprised you didn't know that peanut butter was the food you eat when you run out of money because you spent it all on toys (or, these days, on gas, which you might have to stockpile anyway to get to your source of water.)", "timestamp": "1322849342"}, {"author": "Mac", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/283624065013146?comment_id=283770968331789", "anchor": "fb-283770968331789", "service": "fb", "text": "Most folks don't realize that their hot water heater holds a lot of water. And usually has a tap at the bottom. You would probably get sediment with the water. Let it stand a while. Dissolved metals in the hot water? Probably, but probably nothing like toxic over two weeks. Turn off the circuit breaker!
I recently read an unpleasant book called \"One Second After\" by William R. Forstchen. Some major nation sets off nuclear weapons in low earth orbit, creating a electro-magnetic pulse (EMP) that wipes out 99% of all American electronics. The result is that only the antique cars still run, and a majority of the warring population starves in a few months. Hopefully, MAD is alive and well in the world today, and our military is EMP-hardened. During Irene and the Halloween storm my biggest power requirements were for refrigeration and internet. I think we are living in Eden. And God is pissed.", "timestamp": "1322852155"}, {"author": "Mac", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/283624065013146?comment_id=283801858328700", "anchor": "fb-283801858328700", "service": "fb", "text": "I didn't see honey. Keeps forever.", "timestamp": "1322855406"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/283624065013146?comment_id=283851734990379", "anchor": "fb-283851734990379", "service": "fb", "text": "@Walker: honey does keep well, but it's more expensive. I've added it to the spreadsheet, but it's four times the cost of rice and seven times the cost of vegetable oil.", "timestamp": "1322860131"}, {"author": "Josh", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/118273920476267337216", "anchor": "gp-1322878623997", "service": "gp", "text": "The other thing you can do is keep a supply of things that you eat normally, which are edible without electricity and heat and hot water -- they don't necessarily have to last indefinitely in storage, if you cycle through them. Most canned goods fit this bill, for example -- if you just always have a two week supply, and cycle through them, you're done.", "timestamp": 1322878623}, {"author": "Frederic", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/118156077148469167305", "anchor": "gp-1323481440851", "service": "gp", "text": "I don't understand why \"it's probably a good idea\" unless you're in a hurricane zone or a floodplain. How often have houses in places where it actually makes sense to build houses been cut off the grid in the last, say, 50 years?", "timestamp": 1323481440}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/103013777355236494008", "anchor": "gp-1323487974013", "service": "gp", "text": "@Frederic\n Not very often. Recently, I can only think of vermont in irene.", "timestamp": 1323487974}, {"author": "Frederic", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/118156077148469167305", "anchor": "gp-1323540861840", "service": "gp", "text": "So let's give you lifetime odds of 1 in 25000 of having to rely on emergency rations in your current location. That's not worth worrying about IMO. If the US infrastructure completely crumbles or global warming produces vastly more natural disasters then obviously the baseline odds would go up but you should be able to recognize that this is occurring and reevaluate.", "timestamp": 1323540861}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/103013777355236494008", "anchor": "gp-1323555076152", "service": "gp", "text": "@Frederic\n That sounds reasonable. I'll stop worrying.", "timestamp": 1323555076}, {"author": "Alex", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/100936518160252317727", "anchor": "gp-1323622543382", "service": "gp", "text": "It is still fun to think about, though. One time \n@Annie\n and I calculated what it would take to survive underground for 20 years, assuming catastrophic nuclear war. Turns out that if you don't have a well, water is by far the dominant factor.", "timestamp": 1323622543}]}