{"items": [{"author": "Danner", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/459130440792471?comment_id=459131114125737", "anchor": "fb-459131114125737", "service": "fb", "text": "It's fine to talk about how much you paid for something, but not how much you earn. Same deal, right?", "timestamp": "1353449337"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/459130440792471?comment_id=459132024125646", "anchor": "fb-459132024125646", "service": "fb", "text": "@Danner: but wouldn't donating be \"paying for something\"?", "timestamp": "1353449511"}, {"author": "Stephen", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/105240568142744313964", "anchor": "gp-1353449583740", "service": "gp", "text": "I think it comes down to money. \u00a0People just seem to be squeamish discussing or hearing discussed individual financial situations, and talking about donating money automatically implies that you're financially well-off enough to essentially throw money away (even if it is for a good cause).", "timestamp": 1353449583}, {"author": "Gianna", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/459130440792471?comment_id=459132340792281", "anchor": "fb-459132340792281", "service": "fb", "text": "We have an unfortunate cultural aversion to taking about money...", "timestamp": "1353449603"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/103013777355236494008", "anchor": "gp-1353449744884", "service": "gp", "text": "@Stephen\n\u00a0But people also complain a lot about how busy they are. \u00a0We wouldn't say that volunteering implies that you have so much free time you can essentially throw it away (even if it is for a good cause).", "timestamp": 1353449744}, {"author": "Becky", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/459130440792471?comment_id=459132880792227", "anchor": "fb-459132880792227", "service": "fb", "text": "I don't think the disparity exists because volunteering is seen as better - money is just a sensitive topic in general, much more so than time is, and especially talking about larger amounts of money is a social faux pas. You can see this in some charity drives - people would happily share on Facebook \"I just donated $10 to the Red Cross by texting this number!\" but it would feel awkward for someone to say \"I just donated $10,000 to the Red Cross!\"", "timestamp": "1353449771"}, {"author": "Stephen", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/105240568142744313964", "anchor": "gp-1353449802888", "service": "gp", "text": "@Jeff Kaufman\n\u00a0No, and I agree with you, but the fact that it comes down to money is what I think is the difference. \u00a0It's just a very uncomfortable subject for a lot of people.", "timestamp": 1353449802}, {"author": "David", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/459130440792471?comment_id=459133114125537", "anchor": "fb-459133114125537", "service": "fb", "text": "I talk about volunteering because the volunteering I do is pretty much all for fun with side effects of slightly helping people (e.g. clearing hiking trails). I don't talk much about donating, because that's much more like work than play, and I don't generally talk about work unless the other person asks.", "timestamp": "1353449821"}, {"author": "David", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/459130440792471?comment_id=459134744125374", "anchor": "fb-459134744125374", "service": "fb", "text": "(applying my opinion to explain/interpret Danner's comment) the types of things people talk about paying for are generally \"fun\" and how much people earn is generally \"work.\"", "timestamp": "1353450258"}, {"author": "Raymond", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/459130440792471?comment_id=459134790792036", "anchor": "fb-459134790792036", "service": "fb", "text": "I'm not sure that I'm well calibrated on this sort of social norm, but I think that it's easier/less-weird to talk about donating in percentages than in absolutes (in your case, the percentage is still going to feel weird, because, you know, you're pretty deliberately doing something that's pretty weird by society's standards)
Saying \"I donated $20,000\" comes with an implicit statement of \"look how much money I make.\" Everyone has the same amount of time but not everyone has the same amount of money. I think social rules about not emphasizing dramatic differences have some reasoning behind them.", "timestamp": "1353450273"}, {"author": "David", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/459130440792471?comment_id=459137087458473", "anchor": "fb-459137087458473", "service": "fb", "text": "And on a flip side to Becky's comment, it always feels socially unacceptable to me when I publicly (to the cashier at least) decline to donate my ~10 cent reusable shopping bag rebates to charity. I feel like it's much more acceptable to decline to volunteer e.g. 30 seconds of time than 30 cents.", "timestamp": "1353450852"}, {"author": "Amelia", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/459130440792471?comment_id=459141410791374", "anchor": "fb-459141410791374", "service": "fb", "text": "I hate to say it ;) but I think Jeff is on to something when he suggests volunteering is viewed as a stronger indicator of good character, or something along those lines. Maybe this is a stretch, but I wonder if it has something to do with an unwillingness in American culture (at least on the right) to link poverty to capitalism's inherent inequalities, which produce privileged and and underprivileged classes. By volunteering, you're saying: \"those less fortunate than me deserve kindness and a helping hand.\" By giving money you are crassly acknowledging the root of the problem--money--and implicitly critiquing the system that runs on it. You are literally redistributing the wealth! WORKERS OF THE WORLD UNITE. YOU HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE BUT YOUR CHAINS! (jk, sort of)", "timestamp": "1353451967"}, {"author": "David", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/459130440792471?comment_id=459147627457419", "anchor": "fb-459147627457419", "service": "fb", "text": "Amelia, \"the root of the problem--money\" do you mean \"unchecked capitalism\" instead of \"money\"? Socialism still relies heavily on money while addressing many of the problems with laissez faire capitalism.", "timestamp": "1353453526"}, {"author": "Amelia", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/459130440792471?comment_id=459148330790682", "anchor": "fb-459148330790682", "service": "fb", "text": "yeah, sure, if you want to split hairs. I still think money is a powerful symbol.", "timestamp": "1353453670"}, {"author": "Josh", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/118273920476267337216", "anchor": "gp-1353462229321", "service": "gp", "text": "One difference is that everyone has the same amount of time, and everyone knows how much that is. If I say I spent a Saturday working in a soup kitchen, I've given away the same amount of time as if you did. Whereas if I say I gave away a thousand dollars, that tells you something about how much money I have, which isn't something you already know, and might be considered something private (both in the sense that I might not want you to know, and you might be embarassed to see it).", "timestamp": 1353462229}, {"author": "Hollis", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/459130440792471?comment_id=459191264119722", "anchor": "fb-459191264119722", "service": "fb", "text": "All people get the same number of hours in a week.
Not all people get the same number of dollars in a week.
Talking about how many hours you gave away is less directly tied to socioeconomic class than talking about how many dollars you gave away. It's still linked, but it's different and, arguably, more pure.", "timestamp": "1353463896"}, {"author": "Seth", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/459130440792471?comment_id=459198710785644", "anchor": "fb-459198710785644", "service": "fb", "text": "Sometimes, giving less is giving more: Mark 12.39-13.5 (Note: I don't normally toss religion into the mix -- it can be incendiary -- but in this case, I think it's a relevant point from another \"thinker,\" at least...)", "timestamp": "1353465802"}, {"author": "Frederic", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/459130440792471?comment_id=459202304118618", "anchor": "fb-459202304118618", "service": "fb", "text": "Matthew 6:3-4: But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.", "timestamp": "1353466620"}, {"author": "Nicholas", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/459130440792471?comment_id=459214257450756", "anchor": "fb-459214257450756", "service": "fb", "text": "Complete stranger with no business posting, but I will say this: donating = a way to offset your tax burden while spending just enough to not feel inconvenienced. Volunteering = actually caring enough to spend time on something. Maybe I only say this because I live in a town where Tom Golisano is constantly parlaying a nice tax deduction into \"how much $$$$ until you name this building after me?\" but that's my view!", "timestamp": "1353470103"}, {"author": "Elias", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/459130440792471?comment_id=459216794117169", "anchor": "fb-459216794117169", "service": "fb", "text": "Super thought provoking. I think it goes back to Martin Luther and the protestant reformation's take on indulgences. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indulgence...", "timestamp": "1353470947"}, {"author": "Holly", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/103155559413084004700", "anchor": "gp-1353471445080", "service": "gp", "text": "I've started announcing sometimes when I donate because: I like the accountability of it (even if it's retroactive), I want others to support these causes, and because I want philanthropy to be something folks talk about more, and do more-- regardless of to whom.", "timestamp": 1353471445}, {"author": "David Chudzicki", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/106120852580068301475", "anchor": "gp-1353473291398", "service": "gp", "text": "Agree with other commenters that it mostly comes down to the general fact that talking about money is more awkward than talking about time. That doesn't help much, but I do think it means that you want to tackle a much broader question (\"why is money awkward?\") that will already have quite a lot written about it. \n
\n
\nSolutions already proposed in comments come from addressing that broader question. Like suggesting that talking in terms of percentages would be less awkward. (it is)\n
\n
\nCould even get people to talk in terms of days of work donated. ", "timestamp": 1353473291}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/459130440792471?comment_id=459307930774722", "anchor": "fb-459307930774722", "service": "fb", "text": "@Nicholas: at least in the USA, the tax deduction you get from donating at best makes it as if you'd never earned the money you donate. Giving $X reduces your taxable income by $X and so reduces your taxes by about 1/3 of $X.", "timestamp": "1353501778"}, {"author": "Mary", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/459130440792471?comment_id=459535980751917", "anchor": "fb-459535980751917", "service": "fb", "text": "Another onlooking friend-of-friend, but: I look at this from a competitive advantage perspective. Those who have more spare money than time can maybe make more of a difference with the amount of money they can afford to give than the amount of time they can afford to spend volunteering -- and vice versa. There's nothing wrong with making that calculation in either direction. As to discussion, I think talking about money is just awkward period. (I find it *also* uncomfortable talking about how much I paid for something, not just about how much I earned or donated.)", "timestamp": "1353553476"}, {"author": "David", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/459130440792471?comment_id=459617387410443", "anchor": "fb-459617387410443", "service": "fb", "text": "Whether it's directly relevant to this question or not, I'm not sure. But Dan Ariely has written about how we (at least as in Western society, I don't know how general the principle is) have social norms and we have market norms, and we respond very differently to each. Social norms are warm and fuzzy and generally make us happy, but introducing money into any situation switches us into \"market\" mode, where things are more cold and business-like.
So, for instance, you might happily help a friend move house, knowing that they'll return the favour later; but if they pay you to help them, then it just seems like dull work. It would be acceptable to publicly thank someone for an excellent dinner by giving them a bottle of wine, but it'd feel very out of place to publicly give them banknotes to the same value.
I'm hesitant to generalise lessons from books I read to the rest of my life, but the idea that our brains switch away from happy-fuzzy when we start talking about donated money (as opposed to donated time, or donated goods) seems true to me.
[No-one's talked about in-kind donations here, but my impression is that it's socially OK to talk about how you donated non-money stuff to whatever cause.]", "timestamp": "1353580723"}, {"author": "Meggie", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/100400096087357743127", "anchor": "gp-1353943020692", "service": "gp", "text": "From Christianity? That's just a guess but it could color some of our attitudes to being quiet about donating (\"Let not the right hand know what the left does\" sort of thing?)", "timestamp": 1353943020}]}