{"items": [{"author": "BDan", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/157937030971086?comment_id=157988734299249", "anchor": "fb-157988734299249", "service": "fb", "text": "I don't know how useful real time info would be for transfers. Even if you know that the bus is going to be on time when you get on, it may still lose time on the way (on some routes, it is very likely to, depending on where you get on). If the tracking app learns from past bus behavior, and as a result is better at making predictions at specific times of day, it might help a little, but there's still going to be high enough variance that it will be difficult to significantly reduce the necessary time between vehicles. At most, you might be able to save the occasional long wait by avoiding taking a first route that's already late, but at the times of day when buses aren't running frequently, it may be difficult to find a better option.
Incidentally, I think the other reason many people don't take the bus is that they are just slow even once you get on. A couple of things would help this: the simple one is placing bus stops farther apart. The more complicated one is giving buses control over traffic light patterns, so they don't get stuck waiting at red lights in addition to all the pickup/discharge stops they have to make. I don't foresee either of those happening, though.", "timestamp": "1321053142"}, {"author": "Ivan", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/101147004225363019038", "anchor": "gp-1321053382666", "service": "gp", "text": "\"Even something as limited as \"when are the next buses arriving vaguely near me\" where then I could look at the list and click on the first one that went near home would be nice.\"\n
\n
\nyou mean like NextBus <\nhttp://www.nextbus.com/\n>? (note that it appears to ignore geolocation data from non-mobile browsers, so check it out on your phone.)", "timestamp": 1321053382}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/103013777355236494008", "anchor": "gp-1321053875394", "service": "gp", "text": "@Ivan\n That's exactly what I was looking for; thanks! I think they didn't used to have that.", "timestamp": 1321053875}, {"author": "Ivan", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/101147004225363019038", "anchor": "gp-1321056041218", "service": "gp", "text": "\"Existing programs either use only schedules (Google Transit) or leave it up to the user to look up routes, predictions, and route themself (everything else). If an app could solve this routing problem, buses would be much more competitive with cars.\"\n
\n
\nPublicTransport <\nhttp://kde-publictransport.co.cc/\n> does this. it is a KDE app.", "timestamp": 1321056041}, {"author": "Julia", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/102487727783123805341", "anchor": "gp-1321057619596", "service": "gp", "text": "My main problems with the bus are it being slow and not reliable about being on time. I take the bus to school and that nearly always works fine, but I can't take the bus from where I do my classroom observations to downtown, where I pick up the bus to school. My observations are about 5 miles away, and it takes about 25 minutes to bike. If the bus were on time, I'd have to leave at about the same time to catch it, but in practice, the bus is often late and so I'd have to leave half an hour earlier in order to not miss the bus to school. Not sure what app could fix that though.", "timestamp": 1321057619}, {"author": "Michael", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/157937030971086?comment_id=158030060961783", "anchor": "fb-158030060961783", "service": "fb", "text": "The advantage of knowing real-time location data for the bus (if you aren't transferring) is just a question of how long you wait inside vs. outside. It does not get you to your destination any faster. I'd rather wait at home for the next bus in an hour than stand on the corner, but I'd far rather have buses often enough that I don't care when the next one is. I took buses all the time in NYC because they were sufficiently frequent. I hate taking buses in Boston.", "timestamp": "1321060278"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/157937030971086?comment_id=158099087621547", "anchor": "fb-158099087621547", "service": "fb", "text": "@Michael: \"The advantage of knowing real-time location data for the bus (if you aren't transferring) is just a question of how long you wait inside vs. outside\"
Partly, but if there are multiple buses you could take that leave from different locations, then the real time data can get you to your destination faster.", "timestamp": "1321073563"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/157937030971086?comment_id=158101234287999", "anchor": "fb-158101234287999", "service": "fb", "text": "@BDan: \"If the tracking app learns from past bus behavior, and as a result is better at making predictions at specific times of day\"
The boston predictions (which are via nextbus) do include learning from past behavior. They also will likely improve in the future.
\"At most, you might be able to save the occasional long wait by avoiding taking a first route that's already late\"
It can also tell you which transfer to make. I could take the CT2 to either the 80 or the 95, and it could tell me whether to get off at the stop for the 80 or stay until the end for the 95.
\"giving buses control over traffic light patterns\"
Brookline offered to do this for the green line, but the T wasn't interested: http://www.boston.com/.../beacon_gets_smart_lights.../...
As more lights get remote controllable for emergency vehicles, though, extending this for buses etc becomes more practical.", "timestamp": "1321074080"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/103013777355236494008", "anchor": "gp-1321074296547", "service": "gp", "text": "@Ivan\n A quick skim of the kde app doesn't see where they describe how they do this. I'll have to look more later.", "timestamp": 1321074296}, {"author": "Daniel", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/157937030971086?comment_id=158112227620233", "anchor": "fb-158112227620233", "service": "fb", "text": "Buses in Boston are particularly a pain if you DON'T have a smart phone with apps that can tell you when/where they come/go. For instance, I go to parties and friends' houses often in Somerville, and need to get back to Malden. To do this on the T, I have to go into Boston and back out. The buses are the obvious solution, as they can cut across...but because I often have no idea which ones are leaving when and going where, I'll get on the T anyway.
Bus stops are consistently poorly labeled. Yes, a few major stops might be labeled a bit better, but typically, a stop will tell you which numbered buses stop there, and nothing else. It won't tell you WHERE those buses go (you just have to know before you get there.) It usually won't tell you WHEN those buses will get there. And it almost certainly won't tell you which other buses will cross its path, where to transfer, or when your connections will be there.
If you have a smart phone, this is solved well enough, but for someone without one the basic idea is that I can't use buses if I want to plan my trip on the go. I can look up my route on google maps or some such before I leave, but even then I have a problem if I get there a couple minutes late, or if my bus runs late and I miss a connection. If I get there one minute late, I don't know whether the bus is also late, or whether it has left without me. I don't know whether the next one is coming in 5 minutes, or an hour. I don't know whether other buses might stop a block away and also take me where I need to go.
Now, since I don't have a car, I sometimes have to take the buses. They're my only option to get to certain locations. But, I avoid going those locations when possible because the bus system is just so much more difficult to navigate than the T. I don't have to care when the T is arriving -- it's nice to save myself a few minutes of waiting, but the time I'll wait if I miss one is reasonable. That's not true on the bus, and at most stops they give no guidance about the time, so it's often just not worth the trouble. Sometimes I'll walk a few miles extra, even, to avoid having to deal with the buses.", "timestamp": "1321076559"}, {"author": "BDan", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/157937030971086?comment_id=158116947619761", "anchor": "fb-158116947619761", "service": "fb", "text": "Taking buses without a smartphone is a bit more annoying, but it's not that bad. For the four years that I lived in Boston without a smartphone, I took buses pretty regularly, and just carried a large stack of bus schedules (basically everything that runs through
Cambridge and Somerville) and a system map. Having a smartphone is definitely better (though it would help more if the available apps actually worked decently -- I just tried to use a couple of them to figure out a route for tomorrow morning, and neither would give me
that information), but it's entirely possible to carry enough information to make them useable without one.", "timestamp": "1321077920"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/157937030971086?comment_id=158237120941077", "anchor": "fb-158237120941077", "service": "fb", "text": "@Daniel: \"I can't use buses if I want to plan my trip on the go\"
Pretty much. Before I got my phone (a couple weeks ago) whenever I was leaving a friends house I would ask if I could borrow their computer to look up bus times.
\"I often have no idea which ones are leaving when\"
I don't know if you have a phone that can text, but it's possible to send a text and get back upcoming arrivals for a stop. [1] It's kind of annoying, but if you use the 'saved stops' feature and have stops you use often it can be helpful.
I've not used it, though, because I didn't have any phone before I got this one.
\"at most stops they give no guidance about the time\"
What's worse are the stops that show old schedules. Which are a very large fraction of the ones with schedules. Because it's very expensive to go around updating all of them.
\"typically, a stop will tell you which numbered buses stop there, and nothing else ... And it almost certainly won't tell you which other buses will cross its path\"
My solution to this was whenever I moved somewhere to spend a while memorizing the newly relevant part of the system map [2]. I still find having this in my head makes using phone apps much more helpful, because they'll say something like \"89 to clarendon hill\" but I'll have the route in my head. I'm also a bus geek, though, so I realize this isn't for everyone. Carrying a system map, as BDan suggests, can also work.
[1] http://www.nextbus.com/wirelessConfig/sms.jsp
[2] http://www.mbta.com/schedules_and_maps/system_map/", "timestamp": "1321105742"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/157937030971086?comment_id=158239057607550", "anchor": "fb-158239057607550", "service": "fb", "text": "@BDan: \"it would help more if the available apps actually worked decently\"
Definitely.", "timestamp": "1321106053"}, {"author": "Daniel", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/157937030971086?comment_id=158281327603323", "anchor": "fb-158281327603323", "service": "fb", "text": "Carrying a bunch of schedules with me is not impossible, but it works best if you go to the same places on a regular basis. If you want to go somewhere different, and you don't have that schedule, you can get stuck. If the schedules were available AT the stops where I would need them, it would solve a lot of the problems, but usually they're not. And, I carry a whole bunch of things around with me as it is -- I just don't need a mess of paper for every possible bus route to places I can't even anticipate more than a couple days in advance sometimes. That's why I just look for ways to use the subway more, and the buses less, when it's at all possible.
I do have an ipod touch, which can use apps like those mentioned IF I'm in a wifi zone, but it's a crapshoot depending where I'm going. I never know if I'll find a network to join.", "timestamp": "1321112369"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/157937030971086?comment_id=158306167600839", "anchor": "fb-158306167600839", "service": "fb", "text": "@Daniel: could you load bus schedules onto your ipod touch? Either directly or via some offline mbta app?", "timestamp": "1321115490"}, {"author": "BDan", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/157937030971086?comment_id=158573817574074", "anchor": "fb-158573817574074", "service": "fb", "text": "NextBus also has a phone number you can call and enter a stop number
to get predictions by voice. That's still only useful if you've
written down the stop number from the website in advance, though.", "timestamp": "1321156956"}, {"author": "Daniel", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/157937030971086?comment_id=158600984238024", "anchor": "fb-158600984238024", "service": "fb", "text": "Jeff: Possibly. I know of apps that let you look at those sorts of things while connected, but someone might have created a way to load them. I've found that most iPod apps are built for the iPhone, i.e. made with the assumption that you can always access the internet when you use them.", "timestamp": "1321163546"}]}