{"items": [{"author": "Michael", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/639515184322?comment_id=639516302082", "anchor": "fb-639516302082", "service": "fb", "text": "I think the problem (as shown) is that the adult shoulder belt is crossing the infant, and in a front end collision, the adult will be thrown *very* hard against the shoulder belt (sufficient force to break bones in adults), which will lock, with the result that the infant could receive severe injuries or die.
So, you need to add something rigid to protect the child from the adult, and something rigid to protect the child from the belt itself.", "timestamp": "1385916155"}, {"author": "Mac", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/639515184322?comment_id=639516651382", "anchor": "fb-639516651382", "service": "fb", "text": "The child's inertia must resolve directly into the automobile structure, not through compression of the adult thorax. It would also be a good idea to support the child's legs. Interesting idea. Great sketch. The research and development investment to a) make it safe, b) cover your ass would be on the order of a million $.", "timestamp": "1385916361"}, {"author": "Michael", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/639515184322?comment_id=639517120442", "anchor": "fb-639517120442", "service": "fb", "text": "Mac: I think Mac is looking at the effects of a rear-end collision, whereas I was looking at the front-end collision. Hmm. If instead of having the shoulder belt cross *over* the infant carrier, it crossed *under* the infant carrier, then that would simply resolve one of the problems, at the expense of creating new ones.", "timestamp": "1385916644"}, {"author": "Mac", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/639515184322?comment_id=639518298082", "anchor": "fb-639518298082", "service": "fb", "text": "Rear end actually did not occur to me. Good thought, though. In a rear collision, the inertia of the child is delivered directly as compression to the adult's chest. No, in a front end collision, the inertia of the adult resolves into the auto structure - as expected - through the seat belt. However, the child's inertia resolves into the adult's thorax, producing compression of the thorax between the aft-most child carrier straps (those straps passing behind the adult) and the adult's seat belt.
As drawn, there is no connection between the child carrier and the seat belt. It is possible to design connectors to fit onto the adult seat belt, to which the child carrier might attach. But I gotta say, WAY to risky a design without the $M R&D budget.", "timestamp": "1385917301"}, {"author": "Michael", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/639515184322?comment_id=639522135392", "anchor": "fb-639522135392", "service": "fb", "text": "Mac: Ah, I see -- I initially misinterpreted the drawing; my suggested \"revision\", above, is actually what was drawn in the first place. Anyway, hmm...what about presenting the idea to Quirky and sitting back to see if they get anywhere with it?", "timestamp": "1385919323"}, {"author": "Michael", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/639515184322?comment_id=639522275112", "anchor": "fb-639522275112", "service": "fb", "text": "http://www.quirky.com/how-it-works -- I think it's probably outside their design team's expertise, though.", "timestamp": "1385919428"}, {"author": "Hollis", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/639515184322?comment_id=639524610432", "anchor": "fb-639524610432", "service": "fb", "text": "My inclination is to think that you could make it work IF you built some sort of rigid backplate to go behind the adult's back, a rigid baby holster, and rigid struts to connect them. You'd still have added weight from the baby in a front-facing collision, but that could be born over a larger area (shoulders and back), and in a rear collision the struts would transfer the load to the seat.
Another concern I have is whiplash from the adult's head causing possible head/baby collisions with disastrous results, especially if there's any vector component that would make the baby holster ride up in the crash--that would be really bad.", "timestamp": "1385920357"}, {"author": "Mac", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/639515184322?comment_id=639524820012", "anchor": "fb-639524820012", "service": "fb", "text": "For commercialization, start with \"Stick to the knitting\", ie, let folks who : invent, design, research, develop, test, certify, and commercialize this product, do that. Write a provisional patent as a micro entity for $65, good for one year. Make a prototype (NOT to be tested on a human subject). Shop the provisional patent and prototype around to existing manufacturers of child seats. Take a license fee from the manufacturer. Total cost, including travel, maybe $3k. License -- if someone bites -- maybe $10k-$100k.", "timestamp": "1385920438"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/639515184322?comment_id=639541496592", "anchor": "fb-639541496592", "service": "fb", "text": "@Michael: Yes: as you say, the adult's seatbelt needs to run between them and the infant.", "timestamp": "1385928650"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/639515184322?comment_id=639542010562", "anchor": "fb-639542010562", "service": "fb", "text": "@Hollis: \"IF you built some sort of rigid backplate to go behind the adult's back, a rigid baby holster, and rigid struts to connect them\"
I'm not sure why this would help. Seatbelts aren't rigid, which is fine because they're working under tension. This would be similar. The added weight of the infant is relatively small, increasing forces on the adult's torso by maybe 20%.
\"whiplash from the adult's head causing possible head/baby collisions with disastrous results\"
Yes, that would be really bad. You'd need to play around with models to figure out how likely this was, but if it did turn out to be something that happened I wonder if you could add something rigid above the baby's head that could arrest the whiplash of the adult's head by transferring the force to their own chest?", "timestamp": "1385928893"}, {"author": "Hollis", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/639515184322?comment_id=639542779022", "anchor": "fb-639542779022", "service": "fb", "text": "It would help because it would transfer the load of the baby into the seat, rather than the adult's chest. I was thinking of the rigidity for the rear-collision crashes.
Regarding the whiplash, I dunno. You wouldn't want an airbag in there--big forces and high likelihood of accidental detonation. I don't have figures for whether whiplash is better overall if your head hits something sooner rather than later.", "timestamp": "1385929238"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/639515184322?comment_id=639543787002", "anchor": "fb-639543787002", "service": "fb", "text": "@Hollis: \"it would transfer the load of the baby into the seat, rather than the adult's chest. I was thinking of the rigidity for the rear-collision crashes.\"
I'm not sure that's so useful. If your torso were heavier by a baby-weight I'd think you'd still be fine in the acceleration portion of a rear-end collision. That's like a rear-facing seat in a regular collision, which is much much better than a front-facing one for deceleration.
\"I don't have figures for whether whiplash is better overall if your head hits something sooner rather than later.\"
I'd expect hitting something sooner would be a lot better. Less stretching the neck muscles and less time for the head and body to get to be moving different speeds.", "timestamp": "1385929733"}, {"author": "Hollis", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/639515184322?comment_id=639543866842", "anchor": "fb-639543866842", "service": "fb", "text": "I would expect it too, but I'm also not a safety engineer and I suspect there are factors I don't know about.", "timestamp": "1385929781"}, {"author": "Laura", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/639515184322?comment_id=639549046462", "anchor": "fb-639549046462", "service": "fb", "text": "I don't have anything useful to contribute, but I'm very interested in the possibilities.", "timestamp": "1385931817"}, {"author": "Hollis", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/639515184322?comment_id=639551566412", "anchor": "fb-639551566412", "service": "fb", "text": "I was wondering about some sort of papoose that could strap onto the back of the front seat, rear-facing, with an adult in the seat in front. That takes care of the attachment-to-car issue, although I know LATCH is designed to have a direct chassis connection and that wouldn't work for a seat papoose.
It's an interesting question.", "timestamp": "1385933137"}, {"author": "Melissa", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/639515184322?comment_id=639581022382", "anchor": "fb-639581022382", "service": "fb", "text": "Well, I kept my guy in his infant car seat most of the time rather than wearing him, and it's super easy to install a car seat in with a seatbelt, although yes, it would be awesome if they could come up with something like this, especially when you need that seat! Now that my guy is a toddler it definitely is more annoying b/c of the larger seat he needs. But dang, when I try to wear him right now he just doesn't really want any of that anymore, so I imagine it would be hard to keep him in such a restrained position for very long, plus he's BIG now, so if I had to buckle myself in with him on top it'd be pretty awkward and I imagine sort of like wrestling an octopus, ha :) But for a little babe I can definitely see the advantage!", "timestamp": "1385947548"}, {"author": "Julia", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/639515184322?comment_id=639584365682", "anchor": "fb-639584365682", "service": "fb", "text": "The purpose of this was to be more portable than a standard carseat for occasional use. E.g. we're going to the UK this summer and, if we end up spending a couple of hours in cars during the entire trip, would rather not lug a plastic car seat with us across the ocean (or rent one, etc.) So adding plates and things mostly defeat the purpose.", "timestamp": "1385949559"}, {"author": "Melissa", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/639515184322?comment_id=639584585242", "anchor": "fb-639584585242", "service": "fb", "text": "Yes, that is rather annoying! I wonder if you can check UK laws and see what they require! Maybe they have something that would be helpful to you!", "timestamp": "1385949742"}, {"author": "Melissa", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/639515184322?comment_id=639585288832", "anchor": "fb-639585288832", "service": "fb", "text": "Julia, It looks like it's ok that children under 3 can be in the back seat w/o a seat belt in taxis and minicabs. https://www.gov.uk/.../when-a-child-can-travel-without-a...", "timestamp": "1385949920"}, {"author": "Julia", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/639515184322?comment_id=639585827752", "anchor": "fb-639585827752", "service": "fb", "text": "Hm. I guess it's nice to know I won't be in legal trouble for it, but still not so nice to know that my child could become a projectile, regardless of the law.", "timestamp": "1385950177"}, {"author": "Melissa", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/639515184322?comment_id=639585907592", "anchor": "fb-639585907592", "service": "fb", "text": "Yeah, seriously!! I hope you guys find a good solution!!", "timestamp": "1385950212"}, {"author": "Melissa", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/639515184322?comment_id=639586496412", "anchor": "fb-639586496412", "service": "fb", "text": "Julia, another thought! What about ordering an inexpensive seat on a UK site and have it waiting for you at your first destination? Might be cheaper than renting at least! Travel planning is fun, ain't it?", "timestamp": "1385950534"}, {"author": "Gianna", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/639515184322?comment_id=639620388492", "anchor": "fb-639620388492", "service": "fb", "text": "We were told that infant seats aim to keep the baby from moving in a crash as much as possible (that's also why they encourage you not to dress baby in bulky clothes that go between the baby and the seat - so as not to allow any extra compression during a collision) so any soft carrier solution would likely need to be very rigid and thus perhaps very uncomfortable for the adult or very tricky to put on correctly each time. Part of the convenience of car seats is that you don't have to install them anew each use, though this is not true if you don't own your own car. BTW, I think most infant seats can be installed without the base, using an adult seat belt, if you are taking a cab or something. Also, you may be required to have a car seat to leave the hospital - even if you are taking the T. (?)", "timestamp": "1385977466"}, {"author": "Celeste", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/639515184322?comment_id=639674864322", "anchor": "fb-639674864322", "service": "fb", "text": "For what it is worth, it is also legal for a baby/child to be in a taxi in the US without a car seat too.", "timestamp": "1386017924"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/639515184322?comment_id=654484375942", "anchor": "fb-654484375942", "service": "fb", "text": "Another advantage, at least in our case: Lily hates her carseat, but is happy riding the bus in a front carrier.", "timestamp": "1396879934"}, {"author": "Mac", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/639515184322?comment_id=654494465722", "anchor": "fb-654494465722", "service": "fb", "text": "\"Could this be made safe enough?\" No. Go view some crash dummy vids. It will scare the crap out of you to see the excursions that these crash dummies go through.", "timestamp": "1396885815"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/639515184322?comment_id=654495703242", "anchor": "fb-654495703242", "service": "fb", "text": "@Toby: thanks for the offer! So far we're planning to travel mostly by public transit, but there may be some bits where car makes more sense.", "timestamp": "1396886273"}]}