{"items": [{"author": "Josh", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/118273920476267337216", "anchor": "gp-1366810374374", "service": "gp", "text": "I'm not sure if I'm \"of your generation\" or not, but I do feel like membership is psychologically appealing. It was the cornerstone of American Express's business for a long time, and I think that people generally like the idea of being part of a nifty group. I'm surprised to hear that you're finding it less true among your generation. (But pleased, as a Rugged Individualist TM. :^)", "timestamp": 1366810374}, {"author": "Ofer", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/610777215442?comment_id=610777380112", "anchor": "fb-610777380112", "service": "fb", "text": "Membership is partly about getting people to identify with an organization so they feel more connected to it, and are thus more likely to do things like: a) read emails from the organization; b) donate; c) tell friends about it positively.", "timestamp": "1366810532"}, {"author": "Barbara", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/610777215442?comment_id=610781496862", "anchor": "fb-610781496862", "service": "fb", "text": "Ask the black-listed folks from the 50s. But one organizer said they wanted membership not just donations: they use the membership numbers to browbeat lawmakers and corporations (who not always the same pockets). I think it also factors into the non-profit status calculations and insurance costs. I guess I'm looking at the question of \"having members\" vs \"being a member\", but if you like an organization, you'd want it to have members.", "timestamp": "1366814238"}, {"author": "Michael", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/610777215442?comment_id=610783432982", "anchor": "fb-610783432982", "service": "fb", "text": "All of the membership organizations that I have been a member of either have or *used to have* special benefits that non-members didn't get, including discounted admission.
When it comes to dance organizations in particular, it used to make sense to join if one danced weekly, because the savings would at least cover the cost of the membership -- the break-even point for CDS-BC used to be slightly more than 2 dances per month, in addition to which one got the newsletter, which as you've mentioned was more valuable then.
From the organization's POV, this type of membership evened out their cash flow and let them plan & budget more effectively.
You also had access to the member directory, which has lost a lot of value due to Facebook. Finally, membership was required if you wanted to be an officer.
The Smithsonian still has a special Members Lounge -- another popular type of benefit.", "timestamp": "1366815013"}, {"author": "Goedjn", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/610777215442?comment_id=610787719392", "anchor": "fb-610787719392", "service": "fb", "text": "Well, the SCA didn't. They added the \"special benefits\" when people started asking why they should buy a membership, and nobody could come up with a good answer.
The membership model is easy to understand, and generally the first thing that occurs to people when they're thinking about organizational models. Since it works, that's where the thinking stops.
Rainbow Gathering is about the only good counter-example I can think of.", "timestamp": "1366818317"}, {"author": "Ofer", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/610777215442?comment_id=610789595632", "anchor": "fb-610789595632", "service": "fb", "text": "Jeff did say it's different for advocacy organizations, so I assume he took into consideration the fact that for advocacy/political sorts of groups, being able to say how many members they have gives them more weight and influence. His question seemed to be about other kinds of organizations, excluding those.", "timestamp": "1366819725"}, {"author": "Allison", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/109502185221418876252", "anchor": "gp-1366820431614", "service": "gp", "text": "I considered joining the BACDS, which does have a member discount on admission that would make it cost effective if one danced enough. I don't dance enough, at least there. You're right that the other benefits of membership don't appeal to me, in the presence of the modern Internet; I don't want a newsletter sent to me, and I don't care one way or the other about a member directory.\n
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\nI also had one year in which I used a membership at the Art Institute of Chicago enough to make it cost effective; as with BACDS, you had to go more often than I normally would. It helped that you could give the membership card to a visiting friend and they could go to the museum without you.", "timestamp": 1366820431}, {"author": "Bill", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/610777215442?comment_id=610802983802", "anchor": "fb-610802983802", "service": "fb", "text": "For some organizations \"membership\" also grants a right to vote on some decisions, or having a way to identify \"members\" may be a requirement of registering as a corporation in order to limit personal liability for those who run the organization.", "timestamp": "1366827365"}, {"author": "Lex", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/111102660583646544610", "anchor": "gp-1366828224829", "service": "gp", "text": "In the examples you give, a basic membership looks like a way to make a donation and receive some minor benefits as a result. Contrast to how it would go if you just gave the donation and that was that.\n
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\nIn those same examples, the people who feel that they are part of that organization is much larger than the people who formally pay dues. In my experience, that broader notion of group membership is very much part of how people act nowadays.\n
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\nAs a simple example, just\u00a0look at how people behave with their cell phones when they meet around a restaurant table. If they find someone using the same brand name, they often act like they are long-lost brothers. It's a stronger bond than I saw in Denmark and in Switzerland when foreigners of the same nationality ran into each other. Countries don't mean much any more, but which \nphone\n you use--that's some real common ground.", "timestamp": 1366828224}, {"author": "Josh", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/118273920476267337216", "anchor": "gp-1366828652138", "service": "gp", "text": "Also, about this:\n
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\n> for organizations like museums and dance organizations that charge admission it seems like a weird way of funding yourself.\n
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\nOrganizations like membership-based funding because it's steady and consistent. BSSC, the guys who run the volleyball leagues I play in (and a bunch of other sports besides) charge $25/season more if you're not a member; membership is $55/year (+$10 the first year). I personally play in five to seven leagues per year, so being a member is obviously a huge advantage to me; and almost all of the players on all of my teams are members too, and play in at three leagues a year. But (a) some of them don't (they move, change jobs, go to school, etc), and BSSC gets their $55 anyway; (b) even if BSSC could be getting +$75 from each of them by eliminating membership, having the $55/year guaranteed up front makes their funding smoother.\n
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\nI assume that dance organizations have similar motivation: Selling memberships, rather than just charging more for dances, gives you a steadier income stream.", "timestamp": 1366828652}, {"author": "Michael", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/610777215442?comment_id=610806741272", "anchor": "fb-610806741272", "service": "fb", "text": "Goedjn: The SCA is a confusing example, as are most sf conventions, each for different reasons. In the case of the SCA, when I joined, regular membership (including the right to be an officer) was defined by activity -- if you're at an event, participating, you're a member -- and *paid* membership conferred additional privileges: the two newsletters (TI and Pikestaff), neither of which are or were available to non-members.
For people who were a member of a local sub-group, the events listing in Pikestaff was of limited value, as they could get that info word-of-mouth. TI (with articles of varying degrees of interest) was harder to access as a non-paid member, but still available. As you pointed out, the membership model has been changed to more strongly encourage paid membership, and it's been quite a few years since I've heard anyone espouse the \"if you're participating, you're a member\" view.
SF conventions have an extension of the \"activity as defining membership\", in that activity also requires payment -- but once paid in as a member, there is no charge for the event. Back when I paid for NEFFA membership, it functioned the same way -- I would pay for membership AT the festival, get a newsletter for the next year, and membership would expire just before the next festival.
I'm not familiar with Rainbow Gathering. How does it work?", "timestamp": "1366830133"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/103013777355236494008", "anchor": "gp-1366831964473", "service": "gp", "text": "@Josh\n\u00a0\"Organizations like membership-based funding because it's steady and consistent\"\n
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\nThis seems like it's bad for the organizations in the long term. \u00a0These organizations are depend on people wanting to come there: a museum with no visitors or a dance with no dancers is dead. \u00a0A decrease in attendance is not something they should be shielded from: it should wake up the people running it so they can figure out what's happening.", "timestamp": 1366831964}, {"author": "Goedjn", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/610777215442?comment_id=610813472782", "anchor": "fb-610813472782", "service": "fb", "text": "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainbow_Gathering
I've never been to a gathering, but it's temping to go to one just for the anthropological value.", "timestamp": "1366835651"}, {"author": "John", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/610777215442?comment_id=610813777172", "anchor": "fb-610813777172", "service": "fb", "text": "One of my fond memories is from years back, when I got a job that required a security clearance, and one of the questions they asked me was \"Do you belong to any foreign organizations?\" I said \"Yeah, the Royal Scottish Country Dance Society\". I got some priceless looks from them for that. I also got the clearance. Then the really fun part was that I was hired to work on implementing industry standards, and representing the company at standards meetings, and everything I did was published openly. But I still had to get that clearance. The US security system is seriously deranged ...", "timestamp": "1366835888"}, {"author": "Josh", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/118273920476267337216", "anchor": "gp-1366837282656", "service": "gp", "text": "Sure, but this is why memberships that give you a discount on attendance are good, because (a) once someone has one, they're perhaps more likely to attend, now that the cost is lower; (b) they're appealing to people who want to attend. Memberships that give other non-attendance-related perks aren't as useful for either of those things.\n
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\nMemberships that people buy purely out of charity seem in between: You're not going to buy one except to support the activity, but you aren't necessarily planning to participate. But if the activity withers, it seems likely that you'd stop funding it, so they still give the organizers incentive to keep the activity vibrant.\n
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\nAlso, if financial problems are the organizers' only signal that attendance is a problem, they're probably already doing something wrong -- I'd expect engaged organizers to have other ways to keep abreast of whether the activity is going well or not. Relatedly, if there are financial problems, having a cushion of membership funding gives the organizers more time to turn things around than they would if they were surviving only on admission revenue. (And if they don't, people won't renew their memberships, so it's not an indefinite pass.)\n
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\nYou can also get some of that by having cash reserves, but those are expensive. Putting it another way, membership is a way to generate cash reserves without actually cutting into your overall bottom line. You're basically borrowing money to fund your activity from members, and paying it back by providing the activity.", "timestamp": 1366837282}, {"author": "Lex", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/111102660583646544610", "anchor": "gp-1366837996700", "service": "gp", "text": "Membership fees don't hide the overall signal of attendance. They just smooth it out. I know that Atlanta's big dance group (\nhttp://contradance.org\n) has very spiky attendance; unless Perpetual e-Motion is coming through, you just never know whether it will be a big night or a small one.\n
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\nThat said, you also have to consider what the dancers will put up with. I've attended dances where you walk in and they hand you a clipboard, and it's a buzz kill.", "timestamp": 1366837996}, {"author": "Josh", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/118273920476267337216", "anchor": "gp-1366838392177", "service": "gp", "text": "> I've attended dances where you walk in and they hand you a clipboard\n
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\nWhat do you do with the clipboard? :^)", "timestamp": 1366838392}, {"author": "Lex", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/111102660583646544610", "anchor": "gp-1366859539387", "service": "gp", "text": "I wish I could have thought of something more creative to do with the clipboard. Instead, I applied to be a member of the group. Name, contact info, checkboxes for where you heard of their group....", "timestamp": 1366859539}, {"author": "Josh", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/118273920476267337216", "anchor": "gp-1366860735923", "service": "gp", "text": "Ah, ok. That seems so outlandish that it didn't even occur to me. :^) (Especially in the context of funding.)", "timestamp": 1366860735}, {"author": "Samuel", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/610777215442?comment_id=610846157282", "anchor": "fb-610846157282", "service": "fb", "text": "I actually have joined some of these more for the benefits than as an excuse to support the organization. Leading example: museums. Dance groups also: I was a member of CDS-BC for many years just to get priority admission to J4 weekend.", "timestamp": "1366862372"}, {"author": "Chris", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/117346402173047680184", "anchor": "gp-1366910712159", "service": "gp", "text": "I'm a member of the Museum of Science both to fund it and because it means I can go there without thinking about it.\u00a0 I don't think I go as often as it would take to pay for it, but there's a cost in having to decide whether to go somewhere based on money.", "timestamp": 1366910712}]}