{"items": [{"author": "Kate", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/451362608223725?comment_id=451387471554572", "anchor": "fb-451387471554572", "service": "fb", "text": "Hear, hear!", "timestamp": "1336486671"}, {"author": "Phillip", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/451362608223725?comment_id=451393168220669", "anchor": "fb-451393168220669", "service": "fb", "text": "Jeff, actually the gender imbalance with more men, is a Mass thing, more in Boston than out in western MA has been my experience. My understanding is that most places (ie. not Boston or Silicon Valley) there are more women than men. I know you are willing to dance the other role, and I was still reluctant to ask you to dance (even though I actually enjoy dancing with you). My theory on why the odd gender imbalance in Boston is that men don't like fine body control dance (hip movement etc) contra drops that barrier, and men, especially engineering types, enjoy at spacial orientation problems, and logic flows, which are needed in contra. It's a theory, but who knows. All I know is that it's been that way for 30 plus years, so there is something inherent in the demographic of the area that keeps it that way. I would note that BIDA dances with Sunday being an exception tend to have less gender imbalance. So perhaps it has to do with the people who have historically organized and their traditions. There is a PhD in there somewhere.", "timestamp": "1336487277"}, {"author": "Rebecca", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/108076092316272654620", "anchor": "gp-1336488063710", "service": "gp", "text": "One explanation I've heard for some contra dances developing a gender-imbalance with more men is that a small minority of regulars at the dance are \"creepy\" men (especially older ones) who \"scare off\" new female dancers (especially younger ones). While I think that there are in truth very, very few men at contra dances who actually act inappropriately, new dancers can be disconcerted by even well-meaning friendliness and eye contact, perceiving it as \"creepy.\" I don't know how big a factor this actually is, but it seems reasonable to me that new female dancers might be more sensitive to this than new male dancers. I've certainly brought female friends contra dancing who chose not to return because of this. \n
\n
\nThis problem is self-reinforcing. The more unbalanced a dance becomes, the more in-demand female dancers are, and the harder men need to work to find partners. As a female dancer at a severely unbalanced dance, I find it overwhelming and uncomfortable to be literally swarmed by multiple men asking me to dance, or to have to turn down a half-dozen booking requests during a single dance, or to have men get annoyed at me for sitting out or for dancing with a female friend. I am therefore less likely to return to that dance, further worsening the gender imbalance. \n
\n
\nI agree that encouraging more dancers to swap roles (voluntarily, not just out of desperation) is a great way to break the cycle.", "timestamp": 1336488063}, {"author": "Danner", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/451362608223725?comment_id=451418368218149", "anchor": "fb-451418368218149", "service": "fb", "text": "I've found that I can stand half a night of dancing follow with men sitting out, and then I decide to leave and let other people have a chance to dance, or book with a few key people that would make the evening more enjoyable. I only feel comfortable offering to dance the follow when I ask a guy to dance, and then I feel confined by the guy's ability to lead, and have found that quite a few have problems leading me, either because I need to strong a lead, or because they are at some level uncomfortable, or not trying to dance with me the same way they'd dance with a woman dancing follow (admittedly, I don't have the same frame as someone they might be more comfortable with)
There are lots of points to delve into above, but we've probably talked about quite a few of them before.", "timestamp": "1336488224"}, {"author": "Taviy", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/451362608223725?comment_id=451430088216977", "anchor": "fb-451430088216977", "service": "fb", "text": "Re [1], exactly. A couple people have raised the question if perhaps the reason why there are so few women at JP is because women who want to dance with same-gender partners get all the chances they need at other dances.
In my experience, gender imbalance varies temporally & regionally. A few years ago when i started dancing in central Maine, John McIntire & Nancy Rosalie brought a collection of neckties to dances because quite often there were \"extra\" women. A skew towards men seems to be more common particularly at MIT, BIDA, & JP (though the last is neither surprising nor problematic save from the perspective that a ton of tall gay men may make the series less attractive to straight men and [<3] short lesbians, s.v. partnering issues).
It's refreshing to know guys like you, ST, and several others who dance both roles with aplomb simply because it's fun. But i also respect men who find it awkward, and one dancer who dances quite comfortably with other men (and doesn't book) remarked that he burnt out on it Sunday. The organizer in my brain doesn't want people to be discouraged from attending a series due to partnering issues.
I echo Kate's \"hear, hear!\" but add - Recruiting more dancers of the less numerous gender may be tricky, but it's worth considering the \"how\" of.", "timestamp": "1336488698"}, {"author": "Alex", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/451362608223725?comment_id=451431171550202", "anchor": "fb-451431171550202", "service": "fb", "text": "In the dance communities I've been in, it's common to have too many men at regular dances, and too many women at dance weekends.", "timestamp": "1336488835"}, {"author": "Paul", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/451362608223725?comment_id=451432764883376", "anchor": "fb-451432764883376", "service": "fb", "text": "Ironically, it is often the case thet when there are extra men, the men left over when everyone else has found partners tend to be men who are less willing to dance with other men or less able to dance the other role. It can be a matter of how well you play the game of social musical chairs.", "timestamp": "1336489007"}, {"author": "Les", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/451362608223725?comment_id=451439314882721", "anchor": "fb-451439314882721", "service": "fb", "text": "This would be one of the reasons why I am a huge fan of dancing both roles. I go to dances in order to dance, and even if someone is a gender that I find attractive, that doesn't mean that I'm going to find that particular individual to be someone I'd flirt with off the dance floor.", "timestamp": "1336489705"}, {"author": "Les", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/451362608223725?comment_id=451444471548872", "anchor": "fb-451444471548872", "service": "fb", "text": "Tavi, with regard to how to recruit more women, particularly women who dance both roles, it can be hard to find a way to make us feel welcome when the group that is over-represented is men who won't dance with men. I find some of the heteronormativity of \"need more women\" or \"too many women\" to be superfrustrating and a real turn off. If you only want me at a dance because there are men who want to dance with me, that isn't wanting *me* there.", "timestamp": "1336490287"}, {"author": "Chelsea", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/451362608223725?comment_id=451473478212638", "anchor": "fb-451473478212638", "service": "fb", "text": "I agree that this seems to be a boston thing - lots more gals in VT where gents are rather willing to learn both roles. Being more and more comfortable dancing with women lately I sometimes feel bad that I am trying to get dances with my girlfriends on the rare nights when men are sitting out. With men it seems to help if men who are regulars at the dance are the ones who take the lead in asking other men to dance. I myself am a little reluctant to dance lead for certain men just learning how to follow - - - the backleading can be a little difficult sometimes...... - But I totally agree that you get twice as much fun following sweet leads and learning how to lead your favorite moves!", "timestamp": "1336492730"}, {"author": "Ralph", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/451362608223725?comment_id=451490511544268", "anchor": "fb-451490511544268", "service": "fb", "text": "Well, I'll come right out and \"say it plain\". I don't come to \"dance\". I come to \"dance with women\". I do, rarely, dance the \"ladies\" part but don't find much joy (although plenty of education) in it. I find it hard to conclude that this makes me a bad person. Maybe my attitude is the result of not thinking of myself as a dancer....I contra because I can manage to walk and count to eight at the same time.....oh, and that engineer-y thing about logic and spacial problems... (Swing, for instance, would just be too painful to watch.)
Thus, I am willing to take a turn (or three) out when I miss the \"whoosh\". I've also found that that lady who really wants to sit out a dance may enjoy the company if I offer to sit and chat..........and often willl accept my request for the next dance.
I do book in some cases - usually when I haven't seen the lady for some time and want to be certain to have a dance with her.", "timestamp": "1336493504"}, {"author": "Katherine", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/111274538329832838041", "anchor": "gp-1336505484608", "service": "gp", "text": "I learned to contra dance here at Swat, where a fair number of dancers are comfortable dancing both roles and where booking is generally avoided. When I was fairly new to dancing, I would go to Glen Echo when I was home on breaks (and I would enjoy myself), but I've stopped doing so because of the gender imbalance. There are more men there and almost none of them will dance with each other; I find that I dislike what this does to the culture of the dance.\n
\n
\nAlthough I was taught very strongly to not book dances, I think that I would be much more likely to dance somewhere like Glen Echo if I went with a group of friends that I could book dances with. That way I could guarantee that I would enjoy a certain number of dances, while also spending some time dancing with new partners.", "timestamp": 1336505484}, {"author": "Rachel", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/451362608223725?comment_id=451858954840757", "anchor": "fb-451858954840757", "service": "fb", "text": "I agree that gendered preferences exist and that that doesn't make someone a bad person. But I think my preference to lead (as is often my preference) should be just as valid as a man's preference to lead. And I think people who haven't tried the other role should try it (at least once they have been dancing for a while) because they might surprise themselves and enjoy it, and even if not, they will learn from it.", "timestamp": "1336509589"}, {"author": "Rachel", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/451362608223725?comment_id=451859628174023", "anchor": "fb-451859628174023", "service": "fb", "text": "I'm also curious as to whether men who prefer dancing with women like it just as much if the woman is leading, or if they prefer leading the women? (I assume this varies from one person to another - I don't mean it quite as generally as this sounds.)", "timestamp": "1336509661"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/451362608223725?comment_id=451879641505355", "anchor": "fb-451879641505355", "service": "fb", "text": "@Rachel: I have a preference for dancing with women, though it's one of many preferences and not as strong as Ralph's or Carl's. Whether I'm leading or following doesn't matter except that often I'm a better lead and they're a better follow in which case we have somewhat more fun in that configuration. For me, dancing as the follow with women who are good leads (like you!) is a lot of fun.", "timestamp": "1336511716"}, {"author": "Paul", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/451362608223725?comment_id=451880998171886", "anchor": "fb-451880998171886", "service": "fb", "text": "I think new dances can be put off by the \"wolf pack\" that often lurks near the door after most people have found partners, looking for women who have left the dance floor for a moment and are coming back in.", "timestamp": "1336511855"}, {"author": "Nora", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/451362608223725?comment_id=451895318170454", "anchor": "fb-451895318170454", "service": "fb", "text": "Someone once described a dance community as having, \"Too many men. For a reason.\" I think it supports Paul's comment above.", "timestamp": "1336513448"}, {"author": "Richard", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/451362608223725?comment_id=451931784833474", "anchor": "fb-451931784833474", "service": "fb", "text": "Well, I think this is a good discussion to see things from both sides. I completely understand and sympathize with Paul's and Nora's comments above (Hi Nora!) but I don't think we'd want to label a different dance community \"Too many women. For a reason.\" And Les, I don't know you, but I agree with what you said about wanting to be wanted as a person, not just some archetype--\"yay, a female showed up.\" Yet a \"heteronormative\" male might feel, hey if I'm only welcomed if I'm equally comfortable dancing with men and women, then they're not ready to welcome *me*. (In a way, I'm in a fortunate situation, as a very obese, not very attractive senior citizen. The fact that so many friends and strangers want to dance with me is a testament to their kindness, and also to their willingness to know me as a person.) In answer to questions above, I have a preference for dancing with females, have had lots of happy dances with men, enjoy dancing the lady's part with female friends (who are usually better at leading than I am at following) and like dancing the lady's part when dancing with men, but happy to switch back and forth.", "timestamp": "1336517472"}, {"author": "Paul", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/451362608223725?comment_id=451945684832084", "anchor": "fb-451945684832084", "service": "fb", "text": "I like to dance with people who are good dancers, good friends, and good-looking, but the third criterium is much less important than the first two. As to which role I prefer, it depends on my partner, my mood, and the dance involved.", "timestamp": "1336519322"}, {"author": "Miriam", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/451362608223725?comment_id=451953354831317", "anchor": "fb-451953354831317", "service": "fb", "text": "Then some of us prefer a role more than a gender of partner, just to complicate things. Of course gender is often a quick shorthand for that, which is maybe unfortunate. I think it's important to be flexible even when you have a preference on either one though. It's like choosing to dance with new people at least one a dance--for the good of the community. But I understand burning out on a whole dance of pushing yourself out of your comfort zone.", "timestamp": "1336520291"}, {"author": "Dave", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/451362608223725?comment_id=451997108160275", "anchor": "fb-451997108160275", "service": "fb", "text": "Rachel Fichtenbaum I would say that I have a fairly weak preference for dancing the \"Gents\" role. I used to think I preferred dancing with women. I'm not so sure anymore-- there are plenty of men I enjoy dancing with just as much as anybody else. But when I dance the \"Ladies\" role, I end up getting cranked around, having people make worse eye contact, and just not enjoying it as much. And it happens to be that the neighbors cranking me around are without exception cisgender men. On a totally different note, gender imbalances aren't unique to the Boston community. There were more men at dances in Cleveland when I danced there, and there are more men here at DC dances. For some reason, dance camps often seem to attract more women, but that's a different discussion.", "timestamp": "1336524326"}, {"author": "Ralph", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/451362608223725?comment_id=452001651493154", "anchor": "fb-452001651493154", "service": "fb", "text": "@ Rachel: Follow with a woman partner? Interesting concept...never crossed my mind. Maybe it's just my age/when I grew up. (I'm almost 65.)
@ Richard: Thoughtful.. Thank you.
Like I said, I'm almost 65. I'm proud of myself, considering my \"upbroughtment\", that I am now comfortable swinging men, looking them in the eye as I do so, looking them in the eye as we gypsy..... I hope the \"young-uns\" understand that this has been a journey for us \"oldsters\".
Also, please know that you are where you are because we, though not personally comfortable, recognized the road forward and walked it as best we could.", "timestamp": "1336524878"}, {"author": "Gabe", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/451362608223725?comment_id=452011021492217", "anchor": "fb-452011021492217", "service": "fb", "text": "I'd be lying if I said I don't feel more comfortable dancing the gents role, but (here it comes) I also believe that anyone who comes to a dance in a gender imbalanced group (including showing up alone) should be willing to dance the opposite role. Isn't that reasonable?", "timestamp": "1336525992"}, {"author": "Josh", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/118273920476267337216", "anchor": "gp-1336526053151", "service": "gp", "text": "Huh: We had heard that the Boston Playford Ball was still gender-balanced, thought this was ridiculous, and asked about it, and were emphatically informed that it was not, and hadn't been for a while, which we were happy to hear. I'm surprised that any event less stodgy and conservative than that is still doing it!", "timestamp": 1336526053}, {"author": "Chaos", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/117456609079654916252", "anchor": "gp-1336528440469", "service": "gp", "text": "The Scottish class at Springstep has gotten quite free about dudes dancing together, presumably thanks to the efforts of various dudes in attendance over the past few years. It's nice.", "timestamp": 1336528440}, {"author": "Barry", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/451362608223725?comment_id=452061068153879", "anchor": "fb-452061068153879", "service": "fb", "text": "i've only been contra dancing in earnest for a few months now, and i think i'd like to learn the follow role. in fact when i spent a few months learning to swing dance, i found it distasteful dancing with women who sat like dead weights waiting for me to lead them around the floor. to me dancing should be a conversation. i enjoy women at contras that goof around, invent things and lead to varying degrees. i've never tried to dance follow with a woman, i think i shall try it a bunch at my next dance.", "timestamp": "1336531161"}, {"author": "Barry", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/451362608223725?comment_id=452069721486347", "anchor": "fb-452069721486347", "service": "fb", "text": "dancing with men? i have to say it would have to be to really hot music and the dancing would have to be really creative to be enjoyable. i had a few great experiences dancing with guys years ago in nyc at contact improvs. who knows, maybe it'll happen for me at a contra. there is a goofy creative energy that i enjoy in contra, perhaps i will also make it a project to seek that out in another guy. never thought of doing that. thanks.", "timestamp": "1336531707"}, {"author": "Dave", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/451362608223725?comment_id=452086471484672", "anchor": "fb-452086471484672", "service": "fb", "text": "Odds are that every dance you attend will have a gender imbalance. Very few dances I have ever attended have had an exact same number of people of each sex. I think it is a good idea to spread the word of positional dancing. Dance with whomever you meet in line, and realize always that that may be a same gender neighbor. Its ok. Dance with who's coming at you! And if more men learned to dance the follower's role they may understand how to modify their own dance style to be more accomodating when they are dancing the leader role. I firmly believe that dancing the opposite role makes one a much better dancer. And when one consistently dances the opposite role at their local dance, it's helps make your local dancers better dancers themselves, too. When I dance I prefer to dance the men's role, but I equally enjoy danceing the ladies role. I don't like to sit out any dances because of not having a partner, and am happy to dance either role with either sex, often swapping roles thru the dance at each repeat.", "timestamp": "1336532804"}, {"author": "Nora", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/451362608223725?comment_id=452091114817541", "anchor": "fb-452091114817541", "service": "fb", "text": "Hi Richard. :)
\"but I don't think we'd want to label a different dance community 'Too many women. For a reason.'\"
I don't know about \"wanting to,\" but there's at least one dance class I've been part of that can be accurately described that way. It goes both ways!", "timestamp": "1336533368"}, {"author": "MaryAnne", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/451362608223725?comment_id=452091678150818", "anchor": "fb-452091678150818", "service": "fb", "text": "I find that some of it depends upon height. People about my size or a bit taller are much more comfortable to dance with. With many years in contra dance, I've gotten fairly comfortable in either role - haven't taken the lead role with a male partner, tho.", "timestamp": "1336533441"}, {"author": "Nora", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/451362608223725?comment_id=452092898150696", "anchor": "fb-452092898150696", "service": "fb", "text": "Personal pet peeve: Forcing a same-sex dancing couple to split up so that two male/female pairings can be formed. (Perhaps acceptable in cases when newbies are involved...).", "timestamp": "1336533593"}, {"author": "Daniel", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/451362608223725?comment_id=452094538150532", "anchor": "fb-452094538150532", "service": "fb", "text": "Hi Nora! Hi Richard! Hi Chelsea Rose! Hi Rachel! :)", "timestamp": "1336533785"}, {"author": "Daniel", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/451362608223725?comment_id=452098501483469", "anchor": "fb-452098501483469", "service": "fb", "text": "I've been to a large number of contra dances. Sometimes they have more men, sometimes they have more women. It goes back and forth.", "timestamp": "1336534143"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/103013777355236494008", "anchor": "gp-1336536011249", "service": "gp", "text": "@Josh\n Some gender balanced events:\n
\nhttp://www.floridasnowball.com/\n
\nhttp://www.thelivingtradition.org/MtBaldy2012_application.pdf\n
\nhttp://www.ashevillecontra.com/dance-weekend-register-2012.html\n
\nhttp://www.portlandraindance.org/Portland_Raindance/The_Talent.html\n
\nhttp://www.scissortail.org/", "timestamp": 1336536011}, {"author": "Julia", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/102487727783123805341", "anchor": "gp-1336539342210", "service": "gp", "text": "I more or less quit dancing in Spokane for a number of reasons, but one was that I was told not to dance with my (female) friend because there were guys who didn't have partners.", "timestamp": 1336539342}, {"author": "Rachel", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/451362608223725?comment_id=452346058125380", "anchor": "fb-452346058125380", "service": "fb", "text": "Nora not for newbies either. that could really turn some LGBTQ newbies off of contra, for example. it's one thing to split people up if both have been learning only to lead or only to follow or if there are other experienced dancers who can help them, but I don't think it's a good idea if it's based on gender alone.", "timestamp": "1336562408"}, {"author": "Danner", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/451362608223725?comment_id=452487354777917", "anchor": "fb-452487354777917", "service": "fb", "text": "Rachel, Your above question, about a guy dancing follow with a woman lead and the enjoyment - I feel as though it could be possible (Koren as my example) but most of the time I get to show my connection and creativity best when I'm planning ahead, and exploring the intricacies of the dance and movement and connection from the lead role. Physical abilities may come into it slightly, but I definitely like being led by a clever lead, I don't think it would matter what gender they are. My own following abilities would probably be the limiting factor eventually.", "timestamp": "1336577929"}, {"author": "Les", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/451362608223725?comment_id=452516831441636", "anchor": "fb-452516831441636", "service": "fb", "text": "For the men who don't like dancing as a lady because they don't like being yanked around by a man, do you think that women enjoy dancing with that same fellow?", "timestamp": "1336580343"}, {"author": "Koren", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/451362608223725?comment_id=452520311441288", "anchor": "fb-452520311441288", "service": "fb", "text": "Thanks, Danner! I've been in and out reading bits of this conversation, but I guess I'll weigh in now.
I grew up contradancing, and these days I do a lot of swing and blues dancing too - and I think it's because I grew up contradancing both roles that when I started swing and blues I insisted on learning to lead those dances, too. And it's probably because I'm sturdily built and physically pretty powerful that I find a LOT of men who want to learn to follow ask me to lead them (in all types of dance that I do). But I do find that it is harder (physically and mentally) to lead men, usually - both because they tend to be bigger and because they tend to not be \"listening\" as well. But when it works, it's a lot of fun!
So I guess what I'm saying is that even though I love dancing as a lead, and I do very often enjoy leading men, I totally understand those men who both prefer dancing as a lead (because it's what they know better) AND dancing with women (because they're *usually* better followers). This is in addition to a general attraction preference to a particular gender (which is also a personal preference that shouldn't be judged, as long as they're not trying to force their heteronormativity onto others). So I can understand being frustrated with a severe gender imbalance, even to the point where it would make someone leave a dance.
But what I would encourage those who are frustrated by gender imbalances to do, then, is to practice more. If more men were better followers (which is more than just \"knowing the ladies' role\"), then a) they'd be willing to follow more, and b) they'd be easier and more fun to lead, so more men would want to dance with them.", "timestamp": "1336580722"}, {"author": "Gabe", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/451362608223725?comment_id=452521124774540", "anchor": "fb-452521124774540", "service": "fb", "text": "By the way: I really love dances whose choreography involves changes from leading (say, your partner) to following (with a neighbor or shadow for instance). Those dances are much more fun if one gets in the habit of dancing different roles early on.", "timestamp": "1336580822"}, {"author": "Daniel", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/451362608223725?comment_id=452536834772969", "anchor": "fb-452536834772969", "service": "fb", "text": "Several points:
Re: Rachel's question, although my preference isn't strong, I do prefer dancing with women. I do not prefer leading to following, or vice versa, though. If anything, my preference is switching back and forth throughout a single dance...but I won't suggest this with a partner I don't know is comfortable with it. You have to be really comfortable with both roles to switch cleanly mid-dance. There can be semi-gendered lead/follow preferences, though -- not because it's inherent, but because the average woman is a better follower than the average man, and the average man is a better leader than the average woman. It's not built-in and it varies with individuals, but most dancers have more practice with one role than the other, and that most often corresponds to their traditional gender role.
Re: the same people left at the end, I think this is a common problem. First of all, if there is significant booking going on, it's almost never going to be the people who are booking regularly who get left out at the end of a dance. Second, some people are more aggressive or faster about asking partners the second the dance is over. Third, it is generally easier to ask someone immediately after the dance if you're part of the previous one, and harder to jump up at the right moment from the side.
Also a factor: beginners are often less comfortable asking in a split second, and they're also less likely to be people who book ahead, or highly sought after people that someone ELSE would ask first. So this sort of thing can be particularly difficult for beginners.
But regarding the other people left over, often some of the same people (I'm often one of these last people), sometimes they can end up with only one gender for an option over and over again. For someone like me, I don't have a strong preference for dancing with women over men, but I do sort of have a preference for dancing with a variety of people, or a variety of roles, rather than ALWAYS being a follower in the dance. For someone who has a more substantial preference than I do to begin with, it can become far more wearing or unpleasant to be pushed into ALWAYS dancing that other role.
See, when we have a gender ratio (male:female) of about 50/35, like at BIDA recently, it doesn't mean that individuals dance with there not-preferred gender at a proportional ratio -- some of them do it nearly every time, because others refuse to, or are faster at asking, or book ahead to avoid it, while others still dance with their preferred gender all the time, but may be annoyed at how hard they have to work to do it.
One final point and possibly the most important one:
Often, there are a lot more people willing to DANCE their less-preferred role (or with their less-preferred gender) than there are people willing to ASK someone of their less-preferred role or gender. I find often that there are men who would sit out if not asked, but who will accept when I ask them. These might be the sorts of borderline cases where progress could be made into a healthier dance environment with respect to gender roles and partnering for everyone.", "timestamp": "1336582445"}, {"author": "Gabe", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/451362608223725?comment_id=452725218087464", "anchor": "fb-452725218087464", "service": "fb", "text": "Basically, the message to all slightly better than mediocre dancers like me, is: dancing the other gender role is like eating your vegetables. Even if you don't like to do it, you should. It's good for you in oh so many ways, for instance: it makes you more sensitive and generous; it's taking one for the team and it's good for the community; it helps you learn the names of same gender dancers in the community; it reduces your risk of injuries by giving some of your muscles a break.....", "timestamp": "1336599138"}, {"author": "opted out", "source_link": "#", "anchor": "unknown", "service": "unknown", "text": "this user has requested that their comments not be shown here", "timestamp": "1336608521"}, {"author": "Gabe", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/451362608223725?comment_id=452887911404528", "anchor": "fb-452887911404528", "service": "fb", "text": "But what about figures where the person in the usual \"lead\" role is essentially following because he's outnumbered? For example, right hand high left hand low?", "timestamp": "1336617436"}, {"author": "Nora", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/451362608223725?comment_id=452918381401481", "anchor": "fb-452918381401481", "service": "fb", "text": "Rachel you have a very good point! But, I'd argue that because callers use \"Men\" and \"Women,\" and new dancers are using up so much brain trying to remember the moves, it's hard for them to also remember \"I'm actually a 'wo/man' for the next ten minutes.\"
In a gender-free calling environment, this isn't an issue (and a moot point).", "timestamp": "1336621038"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/451362608223725?comment_id=452930961400223", "anchor": "fb-452930961400223", "service": "fb", "text": "@Nora: when I call I always use \"ladies\" and \"gents\" to try and make it clear I'm talking about dance roles instead of genders. My impression is this is a pretty common thing for callers to do.", "timestamp": "1336622623"}, {"author": "Don", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/451362608223725?comment_id=453122941381025", "anchor": "fb-453122941381025", "service": "fb", "text": "Jeff, I don't find L and G to be less gender loaded language. I do use (have used up to now) those terms when calling myself, primarily because they are more distinct than \"Women\" and \"Men\" so calls will be more distinct to the respective dancers. I'm now contemplating about changing to Lead/Follow instead. The conversion period might have some bumps but I wonder if making that change for all dances in a community's geography (say, Boston/Camberville/Concord) might help drive a conversion of attitudes towards dancing both roles. This might require a concerted effort/united front on the part of dance organizers and callers to get past the awkward mixed period...", "timestamp": "1336650197"}, {"author": "Susan", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/451362608223725?comment_id=453148574711795", "anchor": "fb-453148574711795", "service": "fb", "text": "In our smaller dances in Worcester county, there are frequently more women than men. I try to take the man's role, but I'm a lousy lead and I'm afraid I slow everyone down a tad.", "timestamp": "1336653671"}, {"author": "Susan", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/451362608223725?comment_id=453149118045074", "anchor": "fb-453149118045074", "service": "fb", "text": "As for booking, I would rather not be asked ahead of time; I feel churlish saying no, but I think booking's unfair to the ones who are already sitting out a dance.", "timestamp": "1336653739"}, {"author": "Rachel", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/451362608223725?comment_id=453150814711571", "anchor": "fb-453150814711571", "service": "fb", "text": "Nora sure, I agree that switching roles when you are new is very difficult. but imagine a hypothetical man who is new to contra and whose only experience is dancing once or twice in JP, where he danced bare-arm (the lady/follow role). if he is dancing with another beginner man, it wouldn't help him to make him lead a woman instead. so I'm just advocating for \"what's best for a beginner\" to be based on the beginner's own circumstances, not gender alone. and even if it's in the beginner's interest to dance with someone more experienced or to stick with one role at first, if they feel that they are being split up to promote heteronormativity, they might not want to come back.", "timestamp": "1336653956"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/451362608223725?comment_id=453183194708333", "anchor": "fb-453183194708333", "service": "fb", "text": "@Don: you might be interested in a previous discussion: http://www.jefftk.com/news/2011-07-31.html
Summary: some people don't like \"lead\"/\"follow\" either.", "timestamp": "1336657902"}, {"author": "Don", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/451362608223725?comment_id=453268738033112", "anchor": "fb-453268738033112", "service": "fb", "text": "Thanks, now informed and have tired eyes.", "timestamp": "1336666738"}, {"author": "Carl", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/451362608223725?comment_id=453271594699493", "anchor": "fb-453271594699493", "service": "fb", "text": "\u2026
Smell.
In general, men do not smell good to me. I have danced with guys (so that I could get back in line and book myself a partner for the _next_ dance) and have had good dances and they're fine dancers. The olfactory experience has been anywhere from neutral to not good. I don't think it's a hygiene thing, just chemistry.", "timestamp": "1336667022"}, {"author": "Myles", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/102697985170459590693", "anchor": "gp-1336667876804", "service": "gp", "text": "I second everything Katherine said\u2014when I danced at Glen Echo regularly the gender imbalance was often exhausting because of that dynamic. Booking is also more appealing at huge dances like that where you are unlikely to run into a specific person by chance.", "timestamp": 1336667876}, {"author": "Susan", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/451362608223725?comment_id=453306634695989", "anchor": "fb-453306634695989", "service": "fb", "text": "there are some good instructional videos on youtube about how to dance the opposite role.", "timestamp": "1336670576"}, {"author": "Allison", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/109502185221418876252", "anchor": "gp-1336674579157", "service": "gp", "text": "I find the heteronormativity of contras exhausting sometimes even when they are not wildly gender imbalanced. I don't think I would go back often to a contra where I was expected not to dance with a woman while men were sitting out. It is, for me, disconcerting enough that these men all \nare\n sitting out by choice; it is very weird that anyone would think I should not dance with my choice of partners so that they would have access to \ntheir\n choice of partners. Well, okay, not so much weird as predictably sexist and heteronormative. \n
\n
\n
\nI generally prefer dancing with women, and dancing the lead role, though over time I have gotten better at following and therefore less averse to it. It would be really difficult, socially, for me to go to a \"regular\" contra and only dance in my preferred role with my preferred gender of partner. People would think I was being quite rude, to decline partners and then dance with other people, or I would have to do a lot of booking even at dances where there is generally little booking. So it's disconcerting that straighter and more gender normative people get so much support for their preferences, even at the cost of interfering with who other people can dance with.", "timestamp": 1336674579}, {"author": "Cory", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/451362608223725?comment_id=454000644626588", "anchor": "fb-454000644626588", "service": "fb", "text": "haha, Carl, some contra men do not smell good to me either, however, I DO think its a hygiene thing! Seriously though, I actually do know what you mean, I just thought it was funny because I am frequently complaining about men with poor hygiene, or who probably haven't brushed their teeth since they left the house that morning!", "timestamp": "1336753384"}, {"author": "Lisa", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/451362608223725?comment_id=455428927817093", "anchor": "fb-455428927817093", "service": "fb", "text": "Max says, \"why notice gender first? Why not select partners by shoe size?\"", "timestamp": "1336921387"}, {"author": "Gene", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/451362608223725?comment_id=455621947797791", "anchor": "fb-455621947797791", "service": "fb", "text": "For me it is a matter of how easily I can lose my place in in the dance even dancing lead. When I occasionally dance follow a mess up far more often.", "timestamp": "1336938585"}, {"author": "Richard", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/451362608223725?comment_id=455652767794709", "anchor": "fb-455652767794709", "service": "fb", "text": "Concerning gender imbalances, I've noticed that here north of the border (NH), we seem to have fewer women during the winter, while here are fewer men (but bigger dances) in the summertime. Also, I've noticed that although I'm usually happy to dance with a man or a woman, and in either role, I find that I am much more willing to ask a woman I don't know to dance, and I seldom if ever will ask a man who I don't already know.", "timestamp": "1336941570"}, {"author": "Richard", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/451362608223725?comment_id=455658211127498", "anchor": "fb-455658211127498", "service": "fb", "text": "And Jeff, I also usually use gents and ladies when calling a dance, in order to emphasize the role, although I've been told in no uncertain terms at least once or twice, \"we are women, and you should call us that!\" So, i do switch at time to men and women when I think of it and can escape the nearly hardwired memories of some calls.", "timestamp": "1336942154"}]}