{"items": [{"author": "Michael", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/276372899090250?comment_id=276377772423096", "anchor": "fb-276377772423096", "service": "fb", "text": "This is suicidal politics from the MBTA. Like many people, we have to make plans in advance. If we can't trust the MBTA to stick around (and this plan will eliminate the only acceptable path for Lisa to get to work without a car), then we'll make plans that don't depend on the MBTA. And since we can't add or drop a monthly car pass the way we can add or drop a monthly combo pass, we won't easily be able to switch back.", "timestamp": "1326736251"}, {"author": "David", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/276372899090250?comment_id=276389259088614", "anchor": "fb-276389259088614", "service": "fb", "text": "Now you citizens of Boston
Don't you think it's a scandal
How the people have to pay and pay?
Fight the service cuts
And vote for George O'Brien
And get Charlie back on the M.T.A!", "timestamp": "1326737321"}, {"author": "David", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/276372899090250?comment_id=276389295755277", "anchor": "fb-276389295755277", "service": "fb", "text": "Or something to that effect.", "timestamp": "1326737326"}, {"author": "Danner", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/276372899090250?comment_id=276392892421584", "anchor": "fb-276392892421584", "service": "fb", "text": "I agree with Michael. Killing off your ridership and reliability is a terrible way to improve your situation.", "timestamp": "1326737653"}, {"author": "potentpotables", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/ojio7#c3hrr42", "anchor": "r-c3hrr42", "service": "r", "text": "Both options are unappealing, but option 2 is crazy. Look how many bus routes are eliminated!\n", "timestamp": 1326738167}, {"author": "cbr", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/ojio7#c3hs35h", "anchor": "r-c3hs35h", "service": "r", "text": "→ \n

Eliminate Routes (all days): 4, 5, 14, 18, 27, 29, 33, 37, 38, 40, 43, 45, 48, 50, 51, 52, 55, 59, 60, 62, 64, 67, 68, 74, 75, 76, 78, 79, 80, 85, 90, 92, 95, 96, 97, 99, 100, 105, 106, 108, 112, 119, 120, 121, 131, 132, 136, 137, 170, 171, 201, 202, 210, 211, 212, 215, 217, 230, 236, 238, 240, 245, 275, 276, 277, 325, 326, 350, 351, 352, 354, 355, 411, 424, 428, 429, 430, 431, 434, 435, 436, 439, 441, 448, 449, 451, 456, 459, 465, 468, 500, 501, 502, 503, 505, 553, 554, 555, 556, 558, CT3\n\n", "timestamp": 1326740093}, {"author": "long435", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/ojio7#c3hs6fl", "anchor": "r-c3hs6fl", "service": "r", "text": "→ → some of those routes should be reduced, there is no reason to have a bus going to hull at 10 oclock at night in january, but I agree this is way too much\n", "timestamp": 1326740603}, {"author": "TheSausageKing", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/ojio7#c3hw18h", "anchor": "r-c3hw18h", "service": "r", "text": "→ → → If you live in Hull there is, esp if they shut down the ferry.\n", "timestamp": 1326761870}, {"author": "long435", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/ojio7#c3i77r7", "anchor": "r-c3i77r7", "service": "r", "text": "→ → → → Every time i see that bus though it is completely empty. Will shutting down the ferry even save that much money? Especially when you already own the boats. There cant be a huge market for used commuter boats\n", "timestamp": 1326839461}, {"author": "Jen1990", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/ojio7#c3htji8", "anchor": "r-c3htji8", "service": "r", "text": "→ → I use 459 to get to and from school to and from the train D: yikers.\n", "timestamp": 1326747962}, {"author": "[deleted]", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/ojio7#c3huktp", "anchor": "r-c3huktp", "service": "r", "text": "→ → arent the 350 series the only ones that get through Burlington (And namely the Burlington Mall, making that bus a vaaaaaaaluable asset??)\n", "timestamp": 1326753586}, {"author": "gnimsh", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/ojio7#c3hvtdt", "anchor": "r-c3hvtdt", "service": "r", "text": "→ → → Only to the people who live there! Some of these routes only serve 0.4 million people. Who needs THEM!? /s\n", "timestamp": 1326760645}, {"author": "mpck", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/ojio7#c3i1ur8", "anchor": "r-c3i1ur8", "service": "r", "text": "→ I would literally have to quit my job, so would a lot of my coworkers, and I assume hundreds (thousands?) or people that work elsewhere (duh! If we had cars/could afford them we'd already be driving to work!). I doubt this scenario would be put in place. It's absolutely absurd.\n\n

Edit: Oh, and the difference between the two scenarios for the price of a monthly pass is $2... (78 vs 80)\n", "timestamp": 1326809893}, {"author": "[deleted]", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/ojio7#c3i534q", "anchor": "r-c3i534q", "service": "r", "text": "→ → so have you called your state legislator yet :) If this will really cost you your job, you should do something about it. The legislators created this mess, they need to fix it.\n", "timestamp": 1326828644}, {"author": "Nicolas", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/276372899090250?comment_id=276400569087483", "anchor": "fb-276400569087483", "service": "fb", "text": "Guess I wouldn't be busing to/from work anymore under Scenario 2... didn't notice that routes that far in were potentially on the chopping block.", "timestamp": "1326738476"}, {"author": "ZzeroBeat", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/ojio7#c3hrycf", "anchor": "r-c3hrycf", "service": "r", "text": "holy shit this is ridiculous! \n", "timestamp": 1326739320}, {"author": "dilpill", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/ojio7#c3hs2ng", "anchor": "r-c3hs2ng", "service": "r", "text": "The debt from the Big Dig needs to be transferred from the MBTA ASAP. Getting rid of those interest payments would cover 2/3 of the shortfall. \n", "timestamp": 1326740015}, {"author": "Juan_Solo", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/ojio7#c3hsb1z", "anchor": "r-c3hsb1z", "service": "r", "text": "→ For real. How about Big Debt debt goes to the Highway Commission or whatever the fuck. It makes no sense for public transit to carry the burden of a massive freeway.\n", "timestamp": 1326741317}, {"author": "gnimsh", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/ojio7#c3hsnrx", "anchor": "r-c3hsnrx", "service": "r", "text": "→ Currently the fares that the MBTA collects go directly to paying the interest, and do not even fund pensions, paychecks, maintenance, etc. Source: Occupy the T (sorry I heard this there and am unable to back it up, but those folks did their research).\n", "timestamp": 1326743267}, {"author": "cbr", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/ojio7#c3htsf7", "anchor": "r-c3htsf7", "service": "r", "text": "→ → Looking at the T's budget page you can see their FY 2011 Operating Budget Summary which says they estimate $451.2M in fare revenue and $404.9M in debt service (which I think might involve some repayment as well as interest).\n", "timestamp": 1326749273}, {"author": "gnimsh", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/ojio7#c3hvszc", "anchor": "r-c3hvszc", "service": "r", "text": "→ → → Thanks for digging that up.\n", "timestamp": 1326760581}, {"author": "studentsagainsttcuts", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/ojio7#c3hszj6", "anchor": "r-c3hszj6", "service": "r", "text": "→ THIS! The T pays over $400 million annually in debt service payments. This is about 27% of the annual budget and more money than they take in through fares. People need to stop blaming the T for problems that are now out of their hands and go straight to where the problem originates... the state legislature. www.StudentsAgainstTCuts.org\n", "timestamp": 1326745018}, {"author": "Young_Clean_Bastard", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/ojio7#c3hxual", "anchor": "r-c3hxual", "service": "r", "text": "→ The Big Dig debt exists regardless of where it is put in the state budget. The fact is that all areas are going to need to sacrifice something in order to pay down that debt. Also one of the rationales behind the dig was to improve traffic flow thereby making public transit less necessary. \n\n

These cuts will hurt a lot of people. They will hurt me--no E line on the weekends, really? I mean, the E line sucks but it is close to me and the best option for getting downtown. Also how will tourists get to the MFA without it? \n\n

But like I said, this state, and this country as a whole, has a massive debt problem and everyone needs to realize this and accept that cuts are painful but necessary. We've been living beyond our collective means for so long that we now take things that we can't afford for granted as essentials. Well, they can't be essentials because somehow or another we are going to have to live without them. Better to do that now because the longer we wait to make cuts the worse they will be when the bond markets and state balanced budget rules force those cuts to come down.\n", "timestamp": 1326771829}, {"author": "shimei", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/ojio7#c3hz9q9", "anchor": "r-c3hz9q9", "service": "r", "text": "→ → \n

Also one of the rationales behind the dig was to improve traffic flow thereby making public transit less necessary.\n\n\n

That doesn't really make sense considering that part of the Big Dig funded environmental mitigation projects for boosting transit. The Big Dig debt really belongs under MassDOT now that it's a consolidated agency.\n\n\n

But like I said, this state, and this country as a whole, has a massive debt problem and everyone needs to realize this and accept that cuts are painful but necessary. \n\n\n

Alternatively, revenue could be raised. Even without the Big Dig debt, the T's finances are in an unfortunate state because its operational budget is primarily funded by sales tax, which isn't enough to keep it going. There are other options like gas taxes or sales tax increases.\n", "timestamp": 1326780127}, {"author": "Kevin", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/276372899090250?comment_id=276426542418219", "anchor": "fb-276426542418219", "service": "fb", "text": "That's kind of shocking! Annually, the MTA in New York City proposes massive service cuts and fare hikes. In the end it's never that bad, but there are always service cuts and fare hikes. Yes, they're bluffing, but only a little.", "timestamp": "1326741258"}, {"author": "redfishvanish", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/ojio7#c3hshtl", "anchor": "r-c3hshtl", "service": "r", "text": "448 & 449 serve Marblehead, which has little to no need for public transportation due to the wealth of that town. 451 is easily cut from Salem as there are three other convenient routes through the city.\n", "timestamp": 1326742353}, {"author": "Schwagtastic", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/ojio7#c3hsi3t", "anchor": "r-c3hsi3t", "service": "r", "text": "I can't get to work if this happens, this is pretty crappy.\n", "timestamp": 1326742396}, {"author": "mumblebump", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/ojio7#c3hsju0", "anchor": "r-c3hsju0", "service": "r", "text": "Wow. And no weekend Commuter Rail? Well hello Zipcar!\n", "timestamp": 1326742651}, {"author": "czyivn", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/ojio7#c3hslmm", "anchor": "r-c3hslmm", "service": "r", "text": "→ Yeah, zipcar is probably fist-pumping over this news.\n", "timestamp": 1326742933}, {"author": "cbr", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/ojio7#c3htmkm", "anchor": "r-c3htmkm", "service": "r", "text": "→ → Part of what makes Zipcar work is that there are many people who only sometimes need a car, primarily because they can take public transit for most things (especially a daily commute). Scenario 1 hurts this some, scenario 2 hurts this a lot.\n", "timestamp": 1326748406}, {"author": "sqwirk", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/ojio7#c3i17au", "anchor": "r-c3i17au", "service": "r", "text": "→ → → What sucks about ZipCar is you have to be a certain age to use it (and you need a drivers license). I've always lived within walking distance from a T stop and my mom never bought a car so I had no reason to get my license...I'm not 25 or however old you have to be to get a car but Boston has a lot of college students making up the morning commute, most of which are under 22/23.\n\n

I could technically walk from Packards Corner where I live to my school in Back Bay, but then I'd have to subject my future grandchildren to "when I was your age, I had to walk miles in the snow..." stories\n", "timestamp": 1326802376}, {"author": "cbr", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/ojio7#c3i1m6c", "anchor": "r-c3i1m6c", "service": "r", "text": "→ → → → \n

What sucks about ZipCar is you have to be a certain age to use it\n\n\n

You have to be 21+, and if your college partners with them you can be 18+.\n", "timestamp": 1326807656}, {"author": "[deleted]", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/ojio7#c3hw0zh", "anchor": "r-c3hw0zh", "service": "r", "text": "→ → if only they'd figure out a one-way solution, i would give them all my money.\n", "timestamp": 1326761830}, {"author": "ShamwowTseDung", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/ojio7#c3htzh9", "anchor": "r-c3htzh9", "service": "r", "text": "→ hello driving the 'rents car to my sunday games!\n", "timestamp": 1326750329}, {"author": "Sean", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/276372899090250?comment_id=276458112415062", "anchor": "fb-276458112415062", "service": "fb", "text": "If the second scenario were to be enacted, my town -- which is west of Boston -- will have next to no bus service, either locally or to/from Boston. My sense is that the MBTA is marshaling public/media support to get the legislature to change its system of \"forward funding.\" Essentially, as I understand it, the legislature placed a certain set of conditions on how it funded the MBTA, and the state no longer backed its bonds. But a whole array of debilitating expenses, especially for maintenance, made a tough situation even worse.", "timestamp": "1326744270"}, {"author": "bsoder", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/ojio7#c3ht6c4", "anchor": "r-c3ht6c4", "service": "r", "text": "Eliminating weekend commuter rail, E line green line service, and tons of bus routes. This is absolutely insane. As bad as the T is, we still have one of the best public transit services in the country, this will put that statement in real jeopardy.\n\n

edit: ok I've changed my mind, this wouldn't JUST put that statement in real jeopardy. If either one of these are enacted, this will fundamentally change the type of city Boston is. This will effectively destroy what Boston is to a lot of people.\n", "timestamp": 1326746034}, {"author": "[deleted]", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/ojio7#c3htw5d", "anchor": "r-c3htw5d", "service": "r", "text": "→ Yeah, the "America's Walking City" reputation is in jeopardy. I rely on the E line to get to and from school, so eliminating that whole branch would be really inconvenient. Sure, I could also use the orange line or bus routes, but this would undoubtably complicate things. I actually wouldn't mind paying a little extra in fares to keep it around.\n\n

EDIT: Hm, actually after taking a second look at my usual routes, I could probably live without the E branch. I can't speak for everyone, though, and this says nothing of the other drastic cuts.\n", "timestamp": 1326749827}, {"author": "probablynotsarcastic", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/ojio7#c3hu0h3", "anchor": "r-c3hu0h3", "service": "r", "text": "→ I'm still wondering if the E line technically includes the stretch between North and Lechmere, since only E trains go to the terminal stop. If that's the case, they're going to strand a LOT of people out there on weekends. On a Saturday night, I've seen the platform so crowded that you literally cannot fit them all onto a single train. I can't imagine how ugly it's going to be when they all realize they have to use a cab or drive to get downtown on weekends.\n\n

This has to be a political move on the MBTA's part to gain attention, because I can't imagine them actually thinking these ideas are good in any way. If they went through with either, I'd expect to see a sudden, large-scale negative impact on Boston's economy.\n", "timestamp": 1326750474}, {"author": "Bakadan", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/ojio7#c3hu2ey", "anchor": "r-c3hu2ey", "service": "r", "text": "→ → It has to be political. Even if they keep trains going up to Lechmere, they're still eliminating service to the Boston symphony and the Prudential Center on weekends. If this is anything more than an attention grabber, I'll be shocked. Well, more shocked than I am at the idea that MBTA might not run a subway line on the weekend.\n", "timestamp": 1326750763}, {"author": "cbr", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/ojio7#c3hu6rv", "anchor": "r-c3hu6rv", "service": "r", "text": "→ → → Symphony is so close to the Mass Ave orange line stop that they might well close it. Prudential is less close to any single stop, but with Copley, Back Bay, Hynes, and Mass Ave there's still decent coverage. That it's on both scenario 1 and 2 makes me think they'd really stop it.\n", "timestamp": 1326751423}, {"author": "Caminyx", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/ojio7#c3huzy5", "anchor": "r-c3huzy5", "service": "r", "text": "→ → → → The Back Bay station on the Orange Line has a tunnel to the Prudential Center, so I'd say it's an acceptable substitute.\n", "timestamp": 1326755951}, {"author": "ddasilva08", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/ojio7#c3hx0la", "anchor": "r-c3hx0la", "service": "r", "text": "→ → → → Yes but a fair number of the bus lines that are to be cut connect to the orange line, if you cut buses then taking the subway into the city becomes less likely. \n", "timestamp": 1326767410}, {"author": "cbr", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/ojio7#c3hu57r", "anchor": "r-c3hu57r", "service": "r", "text": "→ → I think the D would probably run to Lechmere instead.\n", "timestamp": 1326751187}, {"author": "gnimsh", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/ojio7#c3hvtv5", "anchor": "r-c3hvtv5", "service": "r", "text": "→ → EAST SOMERVILLE IN THE HOUSE!\n", "timestamp": 1326760721}, {"author": "[deleted]", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/ojio7#c3i4z31", "anchor": "r-c3i4z31", "service": "r", "text": "→ → The T doesn't have a choice. It doesn't matter if they think it is a good idea or not. When you lose money on every trip, you eventually run out of money. When you run out of money, you can't buy gas or pay drivers. With no gas and no drivers, you have to shut down. The T is not in charge of its own budget - the state legislature gave them the shaft 10 years ago, and the T is slowly dying.\n", "timestamp": 1326828065}, {"author": "probablynotsarcastic", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/ojio7#c3i52t7", "anchor": "r-c3i52t7", "service": "r", "text": "→ → → It's such a sad idea that a public transit system in a major city could fail like this, but it does seem to be going that way now. I wonder how badly the city would be affected if the MBTA completely died. I can't imagine Boston would fare well at all, unless a lot of people chose to drive or bike to work over moving to a different city. We think traffic is bad now, just wait until everyone is forced to drive into the city for work every day...\n", "timestamp": 1326828599}, {"author": "TrainFan", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/ojio7#c3hx2dl", "anchor": "r-c3hx2dl", "service": "r", "text": "→ To be fair, who really needs the E line?\n", "timestamp": 1326767667}, {"author": "probablynotsarcastic", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/ojio7#c3hyowl", "anchor": "r-c3hyowl", "service": "r", "text": "→ → People who like to board trains whilst dodging traffic?\n", "timestamp": 1326776509}, {"author": "Mac", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/276372899090250?comment_id=276493979078142", "anchor": "fb-276493979078142", "service": "fb", "text": "A metropolis cannot survive: A loss of mobility for its citizens, the influx of automobiles to compensate for the loss of public transportation, the loss of mobility for visitors to the region. Politicians are smart enough not to gut the goose laying golden eggs, but not so smart as to avoid strangling it for revenue deemed necessary elsewhere. Idiots!", "timestamp": "1326747755"}, {"author": "donaldrobertsoniii", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/ojio7#c3htmor", "anchor": "r-c3htmor", "service": "r", "text": "I never realized how far out those buses actually ride. That map of eliminated bus routes is kind of crazy.\n", "timestamp": 1326748425}, {"author": "ShamwowTseDung", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/ojio7#c3hu1bg", "anchor": "r-c3hu1bg", "service": "r", "text": "Just when I thought about depending on the midnight commuter rail home this semester...ಠ_ಠ\n", "timestamp": 1326750597}, {"author": "Yaron", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/276372899090250?comment_id=276540452406828", "anchor": "fb-276540452406828", "service": "fb", "text": "Ah, the (increasing) Los Angelesification of Boston.

One of these days maybe they'll understand that the reason some of these services are underused (and therefore don't carry their weight financially and environmentally) is because they're lousy. Making them lousier won't improve their situation. The Commuter Rail system comes to mind - some cuts were made some years ago, making it even lousier now than it was then.

The 70A bus - scheduled for elimination under the second proposal - passes right near my house, and is nearly completely unused - b/c somehow it takes almost an hour to travel a distance that takes 7 minutes by car (north Waltham to Waltham center).

I have an idea that might help a little bit: Raise taxes on gasoline (and this is coming from someone who relies almost entirely on his vehicle for transportation), and for @#$% sake don't excuse alcohol from the sales tax!", "timestamp": "1326752550"}, {"author": "drifterlu", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/ojio7#c3huqxv", "anchor": "r-c3huqxv", "service": "r", "text": "They want to cut the E line which services a large amount of college kids, professionals and locals.\n\n

Next they want to get rid of commuter rail after 10, what about students, workers etc.?\n\n

MBTA is a joke and so is this city, instead of realizing we should grow and become more than just a college town with a pathetic city life, we have new changes like this.\n\n

Boston is one of the few cities in this country with potential but always takes steps backwards.\n", "timestamp": 1326754516}, {"author": "spit334", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/ojio7#c3hwk4w", "anchor": "r-c3hwk4w", "service": "r", "text": "→ \n

They want to cut the E line which services a large amount of college kids, professionals and locals.\n\n\n

Just weekend. I would easily trade no service past Brigham for weekend service.\n", "timestamp": 1326764866}, {"author": "Taviy", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/276372899090250?comment_id=276563585737848", "anchor": "fb-276563585737848", "service": "fb", "text": "I think that certainly some services (the most underused and inefficient) could stand to be cut without drastically affecting the MBTA's overall quality of service, but the scale that is being proposed is definitely too big. Cutting subways after 10pm and commuter rail completely on weekends in particular must fail. I'm wondering if some of us could organize a weekend \"ride-in\" protest on several of the commuter rail lines... and a hearty agreement with Yaron regarding more heavily taxing fuel. The whole idea of having public transit at all is to provide a more sustainable and affordable transit option that takes cars off the road, not gut it, good grief politicians!", "timestamp": "1326755377"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/276372899090250?comment_id=276564162404457", "anchor": "fb-276564162404457", "service": "fb", "text": "@Tavi: I'm not seeing \"cutting subways after 10pm\" in the proposal.", "timestamp": "1326755453"}, {"author": "Taviy", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/276372899090250?comment_id=276566939070846", "anchor": "fb-276566939070846", "service": "fb", "text": "ah, yes - probably misremembered something i read last week.", "timestamp": "1326755750"}, {"author": "Ivan", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/101147004225363019038", "anchor": "gp-1326755822869", "service": "gp", "text": "yea, go ahead, eliminate 3 of the 4 routes that service my residence. that'll surely guarantee the revenue from my monthly passes. and it'll be great for public opinion of the MBTA.\n
\n
\ni think it's obvious that Scenario 2 was proposed simply to put Scenario 1 in perspective. riding public transit is pretty cheap. i expect that the public comments will heavily favor fee raises over service cuts. in my own comment, i spoke in favor of even higher fees if they would come alongside an increase in the MBTA's (currently pretty pathetic) service frequency and quality.", "timestamp": 1326755822}, {"author": "Nicolas", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/276372899090250?comment_id=276573212403552", "anchor": "fb-276573212403552", "service": "fb", "text": "I think the big thing is to show up at your local MBTA town meeting over the next two months.", "timestamp": "1326756562"}, {"author": "gimpwiz", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/ojio7#c3hv85s", "anchor": "r-c3hv85s", "service": "r", "text": "Option 3: Don't pay drivers $55/hour for certain routes? I'd like that to start with.\n", "timestamp": 1326757268}, {"author": "ShamwowTseDung", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/ojio7#c3hx8t3", "anchor": "r-c3hx8t3", "service": "r", "text": "→ Don't know if this is true but it ties in with what I'm thinking about something missing here.\n\n

I can't stand the "we're fucked, we need money, these are your options" route.\n\n

It's too limiting, I'm supposed to believe they did all they can with their research and this is the outcome? \n\n

Even then isn't this all to lessen the burden of the debt they'll still continue to have?\n\n

It sounds like trying to put a band-aid on a wound that clearly needs stitching. \n", "timestamp": 1326768638}, {"author": "gimpwiz", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/ojio7#c3hxcua", "anchor": "r-c3hxcua", "service": "r", "text": "→ → I don't have the link but I suppose I can find it if you require it.\n\n

A while back there was a thing on how much it would cost to run certain routes at night, or something like that. Quick math revealed they were paying $55/hour. This is overtime rate but it is not actual overtime; that is, the union has won a clause that working at a certain time gets one overtime pay regardless of not working actual extra time.\n\n

So yeah, unions, unskilled workers earning insane money, where have we seen this before? Everywhere, I suppose.\n", "timestamp": 1326769250}, {"author": "ShamwowTseDung", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/ojio7#c3hxog9", "anchor": "r-c3hxog9", "service": "r", "text": "→ → → No need for it now. But I guess if you can find it, I can too. \n\n

Man it's the "little" stuff like these that may result into a huge problem similar to this damned debt mess the MBTA is caught up in.\n\n

Again, something in me feels like it would be another matter that gets quickly ignored, maybe I'm just jaded after reading all these stories about how awful some people can be. \n\n

Makes me mad to realize I'm on a track to spend nearly a monthly pass and a half for one pass each month because of this...and the service will stay* the same*. Of course it'll actually be shittier from all the lines that get cut but from a quick skim it's nothing around me :| \n", "timestamp": 1326770968}, {"author": "gimpwiz", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/ojio7#c3hxyh1", "anchor": "r-c3hxyh1", "service": "r", "text": "→ → → → Yep.\n\n

I have a car here... which means I can get around, except it's bloody well impossible to park and obviously won't do for going to bars.\n\n

I always wonder how these services were in the beginning. Surely they were not built on the idea of losing money?\n", "timestamp": 1326772453}, {"author": "ShamwowTseDung", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/ojio7#c3hy4s6", "anchor": "r-c3hy4s6", "service": "r", "text": "→ → → → → \n

Surely they were not built on the idea of losing money?\n\n\n

And on that note, this problem is still going to remain afterwards. So it seems that way for sure. \n", "timestamp": 1326773391}, {"author": "shimei", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/ojio7#c3hzc78", "anchor": "r-c3hzc78", "service": "r", "text": "→ → → → → \n

I always wonder how these services were in the beginning. Surely they were not built on the idea of losing money?\n\n\n

Before 2000, the MBTA was reimbursed by the state the amount of operational cost that exceeded revenues. Since then, it's tied to the amount collected by sales tax so that the revenues don't actually reflect the needs of the agency.\n\n

Also, the fact is that transit rarely makes a profit anywhere in the world. Where it does profit, it can do so because of dense and transit-oriented development (e.g. Tokyo or Hong Kong). The catch is that you can often only develop dense cities with a good public transit system (not very dense when you have to build tons of parking). Most of the time, transit systems are funded by the public on a loss because society decides that their benefits---both in a business sense and for equity---outweigh the costs of running it.\n", "timestamp": 1326780589}, {"author": "[deleted]", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/ojio7#c3i520h", "anchor": "r-c3i520h", "service": "r", "text": "→ → → → → Why wouldn't they be built with the idea of losing money? Every road we build loses money. (Except maybe the Pike) Why not transit routes as well? \n", "timestamp": 1326828485}, {"author": "[deleted]", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/ojio7#c3i50se", "anchor": "r-c3i50se", "service": "r", "text": "→ → Have you read any of the reports that go into detail about how the legislature set up the T's funding 10 years ago, based on ridiculous assumptions like "the economy will grow at 3% every year, and gas prices will not rise at all. Health care costs will also not rise." The T is not allowed to stitch - only the legislature can do that. In the meantime, the T is forced to use bigger and bigger band aids.\n", "timestamp": 1326828305}, {"author": "ShamwowTseDung", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/ojio7#c3i66c1", "anchor": "r-c3i66c1", "service": "r", "text": "→ → → I would like to read said documents.\n\n

I don't believe I blamed the T for anything, yet.\n\n

Just saying this is a shitty deal that's only a temporary fix.\n", "timestamp": 1326834198}, {"author": "Phillip", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/276372899090250?comment_id=276596765734530", "anchor": "fb-276596765734530", "service": "fb", "text": "It is somewhat disingenuous for MBTA users to suggest fuel taxes to pay for the MBTA, since they don't pay those taxes. This set of cuts seems like the classic we're gong to cut your fire and police if we can't raise your property tax ploy. I never see administrators jobs on the block. I am pro public transit (Arlington made a huge mistake in the 70s not getting the Red Line), but I'm not fond of either extortion (pay up or we'll cut) or robbery (you bad people who drive cars pay for my virtuous use of public transit because I can get the votes). Unfortunately the fundamental cronyism of government in MA makes it nearly impossible to reform large public institutions, since so many people benefit via jobs and patronage.", "timestamp": "1326759729"}, {"author": "Jonah", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/276372899090250?comment_id=276600902400783", "anchor": "fb-276600902400783", "service": "fb", "text": "Jeff, you should buy up all the buses that the MBTA won't need anymore and start your own bus company. In order to pay for it you can a) raise the fare to $10 and hold free BIDA dances on the bus, in transit, and b) turn the unused weekend street car lines into amusement park rides. I can't wait for Mattapan Ludicrous Speed Sundays!", "timestamp": "1326760295"}, {"author": "David German", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/111229345142780712481", "anchor": "gp-1326761069026", "service": "gp", "text": "As I understand it, the MBTA was saddled with the $1.8B in Big Dig debt for remediation projects that never happened because the Big Dig itself ate all the money. Is that right? If so, I'm on board with the TFC: motorists should pay that off, not T riders.\n
\n
\nHowever, you didn't mention the TFC's view that the $117M/year should go to capital improvements, not operations. Maybe that's fictional accounting, but the point is that even balancing the operational budget doesn't solve the MBTA's problems for the long term.\n
\n
\nWhat will? Again, I pretty much agree with the TFC: \"transportation should be paid for primarily by users\". Tolls and gas taxes should fully cover highway maintenance and carbon externality. T fares should fully cover operations and capital maintenance. Simple, fair, and efficient.\n
\n
\nMore concretely: the 43% fare hike isn't nearly ambitious enough. I bet the T could raise fares 200% or more before marginal revenue starts decreasing, even \nwithout\n the offsetting pressure of increased user fees on motorists. A $3.75 fare wouldn't change my bus-riding habits one bit.", "timestamp": 1326761069}, {"author": "Todd", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/112947709146257842066", "anchor": "gp-1326762841908", "service": "gp", "text": "What David said.\n
\n
\nHow much cheaper an option is taking the bus compared to owning a car? That, minus whatever convenience favors cars (which could be pretty small or even negative in a lot of cases from what I understand, though I don't live in Boston), is how much space they have to raise fares. I'm betting that that's a lot of space, though (again, don't live in Boston) I have no reason to actually crunch those numbers myself.", "timestamp": 1326762841}, {"author": "ShamwowTseDung", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/ojio7#c3hxasr", "anchor": "r-c3hxasr", "service": "r", "text": "Ok so I'll admit it, I skipped to the fares.\n\n

But I was convinced to read the whole document afterwards and I stopped early on...\n\n\n

Since 2000, the Boston-area con -sumer price index has risen 33%, \nbut the MBTA\u2019s operating costs have \ngrown by 65%. The primary operat -ing cost increases have been for fuel\n\n\n

I've got a bone to pick with the MBTA when it comes to concerns about fuel. \n\n

Running 5+ buses down the same route often and then complaining about fuel afterwards? It's issues like these that I'd like to talk about...but I feel like it's too small for anyone to care...even though they'd be small enough to handle at the same time. I hate the "we've done all we can, here are your options" line that's being fed when it's not true. \n\n

Also. \n\n\n

the \ncommonwealth of Massachusetts \nborrowed money through the \nMBTA to fund T capital projects \nand repaid these debts. Under the \nlegislative restructuring, the T \ninherited $3.6 billion in outstand-ing transit debt from the state.\n\n\n

Layman's....anyone???\n\n

All I can understand is the mass govt borrowed money from the T and somehow in the mix the T ended up with the debt?\n", "timestamp": 1326768945}, {"author": "Josh", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/118273920476267337216", "anchor": "gp-1326774492356", "service": "gp", "text": "It's hard to evaluate some of these claims. I can easily say \"I'm only in such bad financial shape because my ex-wife took half my money and left me with all these debts; by rights, they should be her debts, and I shouldn't owe a thing\". Maybe this is more clear-cut than that, but it's hard to tell as an outside observer.\n
\n
\nIt makes me sad, because my intuition is that bus service is way better than rail as a method of public transportation, and is only disfavored due to white middle-class snobbery. :^p (That is not a tremendously informed opinion. But it galls me that the MBTA is going to spend billions on the Green Line Extension -- and do it poorly -- while threatening to wipe out bus service like this.)", "timestamp": 1326774492}, {"author": "Michael", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/110347619670230195222", "anchor": "gp-1326783679559", "service": "gp", "text": "@Todd\n: The average annual TCO of an automobile in the US is somewhere in the neighborhood of $6000, with minor fluctuations based on fuel costs. 12 Monthly Linkpasses are currently $708. For comparison, 12 Monthly SEPTA (Philadelphia) Transpasses are $996, 12 30-Day Metrocards (NYC) are $1248, a Yearly TriMet (Portland) All Zone pass is $1012, and 12 EZ Transit Passes (Los Angeles County) is $1008. So even if we want to hold the price of transit well under the price of driving (which is not the only competitor; Hubway is expanding but seasonal), MBTA is clearly charging significantly less than its peers.\n
\n
\n@Josh\n: You're close; the middle class as a colorblind whole dislikes buses, and tends to avoid them in favor of nearly any alternative they can afford. People will generally walk twice as far (.5 mile vs. .25 mile) to a rail transit station than a bus stop. It's probably accurate to call this snobbery, but it's neither the first nor the last time that popular preferences fail to line up to the engineering optimum. The popularity disparity can be counteracted by upgrading the bus line, but by the time you've hit parity, you've often spent just as much money as you would have to just build rail (cf. the MBTA Silver Line).", "timestamp": 1326783679}, {"author": "biddily", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/ojio7#c3hztik", "anchor": "r-c3hztik", "service": "r", "text": "There are 3 buses that come within a mile of my house. And they propose to stop all 3? WTF. \n", "timestamp": 1326784243}, {"author": "b", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/109680641548243670506", "anchor": "gp-1326785361603", "service": "gp", "text": "@Josh\n : I admit to being one of the people who prefers rail, and it's mainly for a reason that has nothing to do with the intrinsic properties of buses. It's that rail is harder to screw up if you don't already know what you're doing. With rail, they announce the stops, and you pull into a station with big signs saying what stop it is. If you know the easy-to-remember name of the station you're going to, all you have to do is keep that in mind and you're prettymuch okay. With buses, you have to constantly peer out the window to try to suss out whether you're there yet, which is especially tricky in the Boston area, where street signs are not as reliable as in some other parts of the country. There are a number of other issues that are similar in character. If buses had a comparable level of user-friendliness to rail for those of us who didn't already know exactly what we were doing, I'd use them a lot more. I mean, the weekend red line bus replacement we've got right now strikes me as just fine (except for the minor issue with waiting outside in the cold), because it has all of the basic structural and documentation features of a subway line, except it happens to be a bus. Actual buses are somehow always more confusing than that, and, as somebody with generally poor navigational skills, I seem to always manage to screw something up.", "timestamp": 1326785361}, {"author": "David German", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/111229345142780712481", "anchor": "gp-1326804539962", "service": "gp", "text": "@benjamin\n I know what you mean. I've found that following along with the map on a smartphone helps a lot.", "timestamp": 1326804539}, {"author": "zhiryst", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/ojio7#c3i1d2y", "anchor": "r-c3i1d2y", "service": "r", "text": "if this happens, I'm cancelling my T pass and buying good all weather bike riding gear.\n", "timestamp": 1326804671}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/103013777355236494008", "anchor": "gp-1326806717707", "service": "gp", "text": "@Josh\n \"it galls me that the MBTA is going to spend billions on the Green Line Extension -- and do it poorly -- while threatening to wipe out bus service like this.\"\n
\n
\nThe MBTA has to build the Green Line Extension because the state lost a lawsuit related to the Big Dig. They've proposed fare hikes and service cuts because that's within their control; refusing to continue with the Green Line Extension is not a choice the MBTA has.", "timestamp": 1326806717}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/103013777355236494008", "anchor": "gp-1326806908335", "service": "gp", "text": "@Josh\n \"bus service is way better than rail as a method of public transportation, and is only disfavored due to white middle-class snobbery\"\n
\n
\nI think what's going on is that people who have the choice to will take public transit only if it's faster or close to the same speed as driving. Rail is reliably faster because there's no traffic. Buses are almost never faster, because they're in the same traffic you'd be in as a car plus you have to stop over and over.", "timestamp": 1326806908}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/103013777355236494008", "anchor": "gp-1326807041961", "service": "gp", "text": "@Todd\n \"How much cheaper an option is taking the bus compared to owning a car? That, minus whatever convenience favors cars, is how much space they have to raise fares.\"\n
\n
\nIn some cases you might compare it to walking. I take the bus to work in the winter, but if this cost $200/month I might walk instead.", "timestamp": 1326807041}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/103013777355236494008", "anchor": "gp-1326807446797", "service": "gp", "text": "@David German\n '''I pretty much agree with the TFC: \"transportation should be paid for primarily by users\". Tolls and gas taxes should fully cover highway maintenance and carbon externality. T fares should fully cover operations and capital maintenance. Simple, fair, and efficient.'''\n
\n
\nThis would definitely be better than what we have now. Raising the gas tax is currently pretty unpopular.\n
\n
\nI'm not sure, but I think there might be something to road users paying for better public transit so that they have to endure less traffic because other road users switch.", "timestamp": 1326807446}, {"author": "BostonCab", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/ojio7#c3i1lzr", "anchor": "r-c3i1lzr", "service": "r", "text": "I really hope they do raise the rates on the T. The last time was a big boost for us. \n\n

4 or 5 people can get a pretty good distance in a taxi for what it would cost them to get on the T. Raising T rates will just even the playing field even more. \n", "timestamp": 1326807599}, {"author": "Josh", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/118273920476267337216", "anchor": "gp-1326810869670", "service": "gp", "text": "Jeff: But as others have pointed out, one of the choices is whether to have a car (or a second or third car) in the first place. If bus service were ubiquitous and reliable, more people might choose not to drive \nat all\n, not just for one trip.\n
\n
\nAs to the Green Line: Yeah, I know they can't do anything about it in this specific case. But isn't one of the points of having this stuff be publicly run is that it can be centrally administered, leading to better decisions than private fragmentary pieces would make on their own?\n
\n
\n(That's another advantage of bus service: It can be privatized. :^) Assuming public roads, but I think we're assuming that for now. It's easy to imagine multiple competing bus companies, in a way that multiple competing rail lines makes no sense at all.)", "timestamp": 1326810869}, {"author": "Michael", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/110347619670230195222", "anchor": "gp-1326811671309", "service": "gp", "text": "@Jeff Kaufman\n: the phrase you (and I would guess David) are looking for is \"congestion externality\".", "timestamp": 1326811671}, {"author": "David German", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/111229345142780712481", "anchor": "gp-1326839955089", "service": "gp", "text": "@MN\n Nice phrase!\n
\n
\n@Jeff Kaufman\n I think tolls are a sufficient and more effective tool for congestion externalities. They can target the segments and times where congestion actually happens, and measure the results.", "timestamp": 1326839955}, {"author": "Todd", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/112947709146257842066", "anchor": "gp-1326840423332", "service": "gp", "text": "@David German\n Tolls do make their own contribution to congestion, though. Or at least, given the technology most tolls use. The ones in Dallas don't, since they just read license plates and toll tags, and that seems to work a lot better.", "timestamp": 1326840423}, {"author": "David German", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/111229345142780712481", "anchor": "gp-1326840986853", "service": "gp", "text": "@Todd\n Sure. Sane tolls will use the gates that can read the transponders at the speed of traffic, and apply a large fine to anyone who drives without a transponder or registered plate.", "timestamp": 1326840986}, {"author": "BDan", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/103775592027106438640", "anchor": "gp-1326841059968", "service": "gp", "text": "Josh: I take buses pretty frequently, but I still prefer rail when I can get it, mostly due to the way the buses are implemented. Buses are slower, due to the frequency of stops (which could be fixed by eliminating some stop locations), having to stop for lights (which could be fixed with traffic signal preemption), and traffic (which it's hard to do much about). There's also frequency: since most buses run much less frequently than every 10 minutes, I have to pay attention to schedules; real time tracking helps with this a bit, but it's not very accurate, which is why I wound up walking 1.6 miles to Sullivan rather than waiting for the next bus (after the one I missed due to bad data) this weekend, and walked home from it last night because there wasn't even going to be one (out of three possible routes) within the next 25 minutes when I got there.\n
\n
\nIncidentally, most or all mass transit, both bus and rail, used to be private. I'm pretty sure that government support for roads and automobiles was the main factor in forcing them under government control and funding.", "timestamp": 1326841059}, {"author": "Josh", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/118273920476267337216", "anchor": "gp-1326845767935", "service": "gp", "text": "BDan: Right, part of my theory is that if you went with a bus-only MBTA, you'd save the money spent on train stations and rail lines and tunnels and whatnot, and use it to run a lot more buses, a lot more often.\n
\n
\nPart of the problem with my theory is that you can't actually turn the existing rail infrastructure into cash. (Or at least I assume not, not for anywhere near the amount of money it cost to build.) You could potentially replace the Green Line Extension with bus service (if it were legal to do that) -- I'd be curious to see an estimate of the impact of running buses at exactly the same rate and capacity as trains, along exactly the same routes. My intuition is that it'd be a lot cheaper (both up front and ongoing), but I could be totally wrong about that.", "timestamp": 1326845767}, {"author": "Gianna", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/276372899090250?comment_id=277212662339607", "anchor": "fb-277212662339607", "service": "fb", "text": "I'm not sure it's really disingenuous for MBTA users to suggest fuel taxes to pay for the MBTA - while it's true that if you use the MBTA exclusively, and never drive, you don't pay fuel taxes, it is also true that drivers do not currently pay anywhere near the true cost (including externalities) of their driving. Besides, increased use of public transit would result in positive externalities for drivers - namely, less traffic. In terms of the analogy to fire/police/prop taxes, things like that are indicative of larger systems issues rather than individual tweaks here and there. Also, we all end up paying for services/goods we don't personally use, in order to (theoretically) create a better system/society for everyone.", "timestamp": "1326845881"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/103013777355236494008", "anchor": "gp-1326850530806", "service": "gp", "text": "@Josh\n \"I'd be curious to see an estimate of the impact of running buses at exactly the same rate and capacity as trains\"\n
\n
\nHow do you deal with traffic? Is there an attempt to make this as fast as trains?", "timestamp": 1326850530}, {"author": "Phillip", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/276372899090250?comment_id=277272169000323", "anchor": "fb-277272169000323", "service": "fb", "text": "Gianna, have you seen good, unbiased data on what roads cost and what revenues are used to pay for them, and in parallel one specifically aimed at the real costs of Amtrak. People with agendas often argue that each of them is subsidized more than the other: I would like to get at something approximating the actual facts. I don't care about externalities, because they are always fuzzy math exaggerated by people with agendas. I would like to believe in the Northeast corridor that Amtrak actually makes a ton of economic sense, but have never seen the data to back it up. Re the fuel tax, why take a targeted tax, why not a general tax that both users and non-users alike pay, that is why I feel it's disingenuous.", "timestamp": "1326854110"}, {"author": "Keith", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/276372899090250?comment_id=277287905665416", "anchor": "fb-277287905665416", "service": "fb", "text": "1. Gas taxes should be something like $1.50 to $4 a gallon, once you take into account traffic externalities and climate change externalities. 2. The MBTA has little choice in the matter, unless the state gives them more funds.", "timestamp": "1326856245"}, {"author": "Keith", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/276372899090250?comment_id=277288615665345", "anchor": "fb-277288615665345", "service": "fb", "text": "3. It'd also be great to pay market level wages (instead above market level wages). http://www.bostonherald.com/projects/mbta/lname.ASC//9/", "timestamp": "1326856342"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/103013777355236494008", "anchor": "gp-1326857448657", "service": "gp", "text": "@Lucas\n \"the app would silently monitor your GPS location in the background and let you know when you're a couple minutes away from your stop\"\n
\n
\nI bet this already exists.", "timestamp": 1326857448}, {"author": "Michael", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/110347619670230195222", "anchor": "gp-1326857625949", "service": "gp", "text": "SeptaDroid does it. Dunno what's out there for MBTA, or on the iOS side.", "timestamp": 1326857625}, {"author": "Michael", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/110347619670230195222", "anchor": "gp-1326860170446", "service": "gp", "text": "@Josh\n: Are you under the impression that bus service on existing routes is cheaper to provide than trolley/subway service on existing routes? It's not. The subway side is cheaper on labor (one or two operators per train versus one per bus), motive power (electric vs. (usually) diesel), rolling stock (subway trains can and do last 40 years in service whereas buses need overhaul after 10 and replacement after 20), and time (they're faster, so less rolling stock can cover a route at the same service headway). MBTA charges less for a bus because a bus inferior service, not because it's cheaper to provide. (Most other agencies figure the factors cancel out and charge the same for both).\n
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\nAnd capacity? Ha ha ha ha no. The biggest buses the T runs are 60' articulated buses. Using the newest ones (New Flyer DE60LFRs, for those as care), that gets you a seated capacity of \"up to 64\" per bus (\nhttp://www.newflyer.com/index/restyled-specifications-printer-friendly\n), plus standees (no readily available web source, but I'd be shocked if it were much over 20, so we'll say 40.) A Red Line 01800 car is 69' long (and a foot wider), runs in trains of up to 6 cars, every 9 minutes at rush hour (more could be run in theory, but we'll ignore that), seats 50 and stands 150 or more (no ready source, but extrapolating from NYC's 60' * 10' subway cars cited at \nhttp://talk.nycsubway.org/perl/read?subtalk=646248\n ). To replace the Red Line's current capacity, you would have to run an articulated bus every 47 seconds at rush hour. I'm fairly certain that this is actually impossible (it's certainly incompatible with any other traffic in the bus lane, and possibly also with crossing traffic or pedestrians). The Green Line is slightly better; it runs 2-car trains (very rarely, 3) every 6 minutes to Lechmere, but of course only the E branch runs that far, and the other three branches turn back in Boston. With a passenger capacity of 154-166 per Type 8 car (\nhttp://www.lightrail.com/carspecpages/mbta/mbtatype8.htm\n), that only requires an articulated bus every two minutes or so to match current capacity to Lechmere at rush hour. The main Tremont/Boylston Green Line trunk would require an articulated bus every 30 seconds. \n
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\nAnd in all these scenarios, you have maintained theoretical capacity while replacing a popular service with an inferior, less popular, more expensive one, and seriously disrupted the cityscape in doing so.", "timestamp": 1326860170}, {"author": "Josh", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/118273920476267337216", "anchor": "gp-1326899287841", "service": "gp", "text": "Noda: Thanks for the all the info; that's definitely stuff I didn't know.", "timestamp": 1326899287}, {"author": "Gianna", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/276372899090250?comment_id=277735082287365", "anchor": "fb-277735082287365", "service": "fb", "text": "Phillip, hmm...I'm not sure I have...although I would like to/be happy to. I think I remember reading a report a few years back that talked about Amtrak, and said that the northeast corridor is the only place in the country where amtrak actually makes money (or covers their costs? or isn't subsidized? I'm not sure which). Re: externalities, I'm not enough of a statistician to know how fuzzy the math is, but I'm going to guess (maybe someone with more knowledge than I can weigh in) that is possible to mathematically model externalities the same way the MBTA report mathematically modeled predicted changes in ridership with their two scenarios. Re: Fuel Tax, I would be willing to entertain lots of different ideas to pay for public goods; I'm not tied to a fuel tax to pay for public transit. But I still think the current individual \"cost\" of driving does not come close to approximating the \"real\" cost of driving, and thus incentives/behaviors aren't optimally aligned. On the question of being disingenuous, fuel tax or not, I also don't think it's disingenuous to say that you shouldn't pay for things you don't necessarily use as an individual - unless you think that applies across the board (i.e. I don't use social services, so no money I make should fund them, etc.) This is a valid political view (although I don't agree with it)", "timestamp": "1326920167"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/276372899090250?comment_id=277747425619464", "anchor": "fb-277747425619464", "service": "fb", "text": "@Phillip: the MBTA spends $58M to operate The RIDE, comparable to the $60M it spends to operate subways (Red, Orange, and Blue lines combined). This is for people with \"physical, mental, or cognitive disabilities\" that prevent them from taking normal MBTA service. User fees can only get you so far.", "timestamp": "1326921489"}, {"author": "Phillip", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/276372899090250?comment_id=277758305618376", "anchor": "fb-277758305618376", "service": "fb", "text": "@Jeff: This of course makes the analysis more complicated. The RIDE is a social service administered by a transportation alternative (the T). One that entirely uses roads, and mostly doesn't displace automobiles. I would describe it as a general good, which should be be paid out of state and potentially local taxes. There is no logic to linking it to a fuel tax. BTW do you have a source for the numbers (I am always curious what operating means. The Subways should have a heavy depreciation number because they represent an enormous set of capital assets, I am curious if they put this in their operating number (generally accepted accounting principles would say they do, but government agencies tend to ignore GAAP).", "timestamp": "1326922726"}, {"author": "Phillip", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/276372899090250?comment_id=277760325618174", "anchor": "fb-277760325618174", "service": "fb", "text": "@Keith: I would observe that those numbers don't include the pension burden, which is considerable. Further, the number of patronage jobs that either are unnecessary, or outright no shows, I expect is appalling (the worst thing is what those jobs do to the moral of the people who want to actually do a good job for a days pay).", "timestamp": "1326922965"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/276372899090250?comment_id=277769652283908", "anchor": "fb-277769652283908", "service": "fb", "text": "@Phillip: http://mbta.com/.../FY09%20Budget%20Book_Section_7.pdf page 12. I added the numbers for \"red\", \"orange\", and \"blue\". Looking more, I think this isn't enough. I'm going to read more.", "timestamp": "1326923980"}, {"author": "Phillip", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/276372899090250?comment_id=277802225613984", "anchor": "fb-277802225613984", "service": "fb", "text": "Weird, capital costs some places and not others. Definitely incomplete. Some nice detail in some places.", "timestamp": "1326927908"}, {"author": "Tom", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/276372899090250?comment_id=277933845600822", "anchor": "fb-277933845600822", "service": "fb", "text": "One of the lines they are planning on cutting is the only way that I have to get to work, me and about 30 other people at my office. Some of them can't even legally drive. For me I would have to buy a car, pay for gas, insurance, maintenance.", "timestamp": "1326944426"}, {"author": "Tom", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/276372899090250?comment_id=277934358934104", "anchor": "fb-277934358934104", "service": "fb", "text": "Not looking forward to the cuts, seriously hoping they find an alternative. I'll gladly pay the fare hikes vs buying a car.", "timestamp": "1326944487"}]}