{"items": [{"author": "Cecile", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/939437013572?comment_id=939443116342", "anchor": "fb-939443116342", "service": "fb", "text": "20db is huge!", "timestamp": "1525031791"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/939437013572?comment_id=939443116342&reply_comment_id=939443281012", "anchor": "fb-939443116342_939443281012", "service": "fb", "text": "→ You can hear the difference: https://www.jefftk.com/hammer-drop-alternating-before...", "timestamp": "1525031937"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/939437013572?comment_id=939443116342&reply_comment_id=939443320932", "anchor": "fb-939443116342_939443320932", "service": "fb", "text": "→ That's pasted together, alternating before-after, three times.", "timestamp": "1525031955"}, {"author": "Danner", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/939437013572?comment_id=939444044482", "anchor": "fb-939444044482", "service": "fb", "text": "That's amazing. Great work, your tenants will love you for it!
The room will be more cozy heat-wise too, right?", "timestamp": "1525032560"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/939437013572?comment_id=939444044482&reply_comment_id=939446783992", "anchor": "fb-939444044482_939446783992", "service": "fb", "text": "→ I wouldn't expect it to change heating too much, since the ceiling divides two heated spaces (their unit and ours).", "timestamp": "1525033939"}, {"author": "Danner", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/939437013572?comment_id=939444044482&reply_comment_id=939450576392", "anchor": "fb-939444044482_939450576392", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Baffles slow the flow of heat, but you're right, it won't change *costs* much, but it might change the feel in that individual room.", "timestamp": "1525036268"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/939437013572?comment_id=939444044482&reply_comment_id=939451369802", "anchor": "fb-939444044482_939451369802", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Might, yes, especially since the baseboard radiator in that room can have trouble keeping up on very cold days.", "timestamp": "1525036774"}, {"author": "accidentalaquarist", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/HomeImprovement/comments/8ftp32#dy6gtpj", "anchor": "r-dy6gtpj", "service": "r", "text": "$1800 bedroom ceiling repair... wow hope the rent is going up to cover that.. lol\n\n
Looks good and probably sounds better. A 20dB drop is huge. \n", "timestamp": 1525034310}, {"author": "emersont49", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/HomeImprovement/comments/8ftp32#dy6h3hh", "anchor": "r-dy6h3hh", "service": "r", "text": "I built a small (90 sq ft) music room in the basement directly below our dining room. I use Roxul safe and sound between the 12\u201d joists. I put in two layers since it was cheap. I used hat channel but only one layer of 1/2\u201d drywall on the music room ceiling. I play electric guitar snd can jam out and no one above hears anything.\n", "timestamp": 1525034582}, {"author": "ElderScrolls", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/HomeImprovement/comments/8ftp32#dy6rt7p", "anchor": "r-dy6rt7p", "service": "r", "text": "→ I'm a huge safe n sound fan. Works amazing. I redid the downstairs with it a while ago. Just as an FYI to others, Roxul recommends leaving open air space in the joist and not filling completely with safe n sound. Allegedly it aids in the sound dampening. \n\n
That said though, I'm not sure which would actually be more effective. My gut tells me filling the cavity because it's more mass. \n", "timestamp": 1525046603}, {"author": "arizona-lad", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/HomeImprovement/comments/8ftp32#dy6i7nb", "anchor": "r-dy6i7nb", "service": "r", "text": "I am a bit confused with the graph. Finish+6, and finish+15. Why the difference?\n", "timestamp": 1525035717}, {"author": "cbr", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/HomeImprovement/comments/8ftp32#dy9f3th", "anchor": "r-dy9f3th", "service": "r", "text": "→ Sorry, those are days since finish. The green glue takes some time to dry, so I was expecting it to get a bit better the longer I waited.\n", "timestamp": 1525172421}, {"author": "Nick", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/939437013572?comment_id=939450431682", "anchor": "fb-939450431682", "service": "fb", "text": "What is a typical amount of soundproofing for residential homes or more corporate apartment complexes? I've avoided being on anything but the top floor because of old construction, and I've never been sure how to gauge a prospective apartment's level of soundproofing before moving into the unit.", "timestamp": "1525036127"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/939437013572?comment_id=939450431682&reply_comment_id=939451284972", "anchor": "fb-939450431682_939451284972", "service": "fb", "text": "→ For a residential 2-3 family in this area that's not been renovated, very minimal soundproofing. Generally a bit better than what we had (3/8\" drywall is really puny) but not by that much.
Things built now are generally much better.
The best way to gauge sound proofing would be to actually test it, but how practical that would be depends on how cooperative the owner is.", "timestamp": "1525036714"}, {"author": "Mike", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/939437013572?comment_id=939455845832", "anchor": "fb-939455845832", "service": "fb", "text": "That green glue is no fun to use, it sticks to everything. Glad it worked for you. Love the Free Raisins", "timestamp": "1525039785"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/939437013572?comment_id=939455845832&reply_comment_id=939456045432", "anchor": "fb-939455845832_939456045432", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Very sticky stuff! But cleans up ok with water if you get it right away.", "timestamp": "1525039873"}, {"author": "mrmackster", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/HomeImprovement/comments/8ftp32#dy6mrz4", "anchor": "r-dy6mrz4", "service": "r", "text": "That fiberglass insulation isn't meant for sound. Should have gone safe and sound or AFB.\n", "timestamp": 1525040578}, {"author": "ElderScrolls", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/HomeImprovement/comments/8ftp32#dy6rudi", "anchor": "r-dy6rudi", "service": "r", "text": "→ Any mass will help stop the echo chamber, but I can tell a WORLD of difference between my safe n sound walls and those with just fiberglass. So I agree with you 100 percent. \n", "timestamp": 1525046643}, {"author": "cbr", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/HomeImprovement/comments/8ftp32#dy9fh8e", "anchor": "r-dy9fh8e", "service": "r", "text": "→ → Do those walls also have green glue, RSIC clips, and double drywall? My understanding is the extra mass from safe n sound (rock wool) wouldn't matter if you did.\n", "timestamp": 1525173148}, {"author": "badger-dude", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/HomeImprovement/comments/8ftp32#dy87c3g", "anchor": "r-dy87c3g", "service": "r", "text": "→ Fiberglass does indeed help with sound, but not by much. When doing a decoupled system like the OP acoustic industry testing shows that it's a waste to pay more for the safe and sound. You will not be able to tell the difference when combined with double drywall and a clip and channel system. Basically in this application the "insulation" does a tiny amount of the sound reduction relative to the other solutions being applied.\n", "timestamp": 1525115854}, {"author": "mrmackster", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/HomeImprovement/comments/8ftp32#dy89kh4", "anchor": "r-dy89kh4", "service": "r", "text": "→ → They already put insulation in there, so they spent money on that already. It's not in the price breakdown, so maybe they had it on hand already. The also sistered the joists to fit 6 inches of fiberglass in there so there is cost/work associated with that.\n\n
But even then, we talking about less than 200 dollars worth of materials for a project that you will never want to do again. \n", "timestamp": 1525117880}, {"author": "badger-dude", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/HomeImprovement/comments/8ftp32#dy8ca52", "anchor": "r-dy8ca52", "service": "r", "text": "→ → → Yeah, I can't argue about just paying the extra $200 since it's a one time deal maybe. I just reread and noted as you said that they sistered to add depth for more insulation. Honestly though that was generally a waste. The sound experts I've consulted with say it's not worth going thicker than r-30 or 38, even if you have the space for it. Due to diminishing returns you are just wasting money and will not be able to hear any difference. \n", "timestamp": 1525120397}, {"author": "cbr", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/HomeImprovement/comments/8ftp32#dy9fjvg", "anchor": "r-dy9fjvg", "service": "r", "text": "→ → \n
in this application the "insulation" does a tiny amount of the sound reduction relative to the other solutions being applied\n\n\n
I believe the insulation is primarily to reduce resonance in the cavity, and anything that takes up most of the cavity will work.\n", "timestamp": 1525173283}, {"author": "syrup_on_everything", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/HomeImprovement/comments/8ftp32#dy6r33k", "anchor": "r-dy6r33k", "service": "r", "text": "that green crap is amazing. I'd say this might be overkill, but then again if they'res a hole anywhere, the sound will get through. Great freakin job dude!\n", "timestamp": 1525045707}, {"author": "Michael", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/939437013572?comment_id=939471509442", "anchor": "fb-939471509442", "service": "fb", "text": "Considering the tradeoff between lifting heavy sheets of drywall, and using sticky gooey green glue, would you consider making it with 3 or 4 layers of 3/8 drywall, instead of 2 layers of 5/8 drywall, next time?", "timestamp": "1525049025"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/939437013572?comment_id=939471509442&reply_comment_id=939472352752", "anchor": "fb-939471509442_939472352752", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Lifting it is hard work, but cutting it to size is a different kind of hard work. I'd probably do it the same way again.", "timestamp": "1525049321"}, {"author": "Andrew", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/939437013572?comment_id=939486329742", "anchor": "fb-939486329742", "service": "fb", "text": "Is it so hard to find a tenant in MA that you need to go to this kind of extreme for them?", "timestamp": "1525058028"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/939437013572?comment_id=939486329742&reply_comment_id=939513041212", "anchor": "fb-939486329742_939513041212", "service": "fb", "text": "→ * I like this tenant a lot; we're good friends and I enjoy having them around.
* I suspect the market rent difference between a noisy bedroom and a quiet one, when this tenant leaves, makes this worth it anyway.", "timestamp": "1525087426"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/939437013572?comment_id=939486329742&reply_comment_id=980719917302", "anchor": "fb-939486329742_980719917302", "service": "fb", "text": "→ We have new downstairs tenants, and they also appreciate the sound damping. Even though the initial tenant moved I'm still very glad we did this.", "timestamp": "1549478799"}, {"author": "badger-dude", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/HomeImprovement/comments/8ftp32#dy88rdu", "anchor": "r-dy88rdu", "service": "r", "text": "Good job on the project and I like the testing results; much improvement. Just a couple helpful hint for others that may follow. I would recommend you install the insulation prior to the clip and channel system and be sure to use an "inset" style stapling installation rather than a "face" style stapling. You generally do not want your insulation hanging on the hat channel like is shown here. A bit of casual contact isn't a huge deal, but in the picture 6" batt, the insulation appears to be supported by the channel and friction rather than staples, in fact so much so that it might sag onto the drywall below. You want to avoid this if possible. The insulation should be tucked up into the joist bays (but not compressed) and not touching the rails or drywall if possible. One of the primary tenets of soundproofing is "decoupling" and having the contact like shown reduces the efficiency of the system since it adds contact area.\n\n
Also, there are diminishing returns for how much pink insulation you add. Generally beyond r30/38 you will not hear any difference and you are just wasting money. Really, the clips, channel, drywall and green glue are doing virtually all of the work in this configuration. Doing over I'd just fill the existing cavity and leave it alone. \n\n
It also might be a good idea to hire a structural eng to ensure that your particular joist configuration can handle all the added mass. The discontinuous pieces used here really won't add much strength and full span lumber would be preferred. However, it may be that his original joists could handle all the load, depending on wood quality and span, so what he did may just be above and beyond. He did indicate it was more for the insulation than strength. \n\n
Otherwise, the OP did a good job and appears to have solid results.\n", "timestamp": 1525117152}, {"author": "cbr", "source_link": "http://www.reddit.com/r/HomeImprovement/comments/8ftp32#dy9fe70", "anchor": "r-dy9fe70", "service": "r", "text": "→ \n
in the picture 6" batt, the insulation appears to be supported by the channel and friction rather than staples\n\n\n
We stapled the first 6" layer of insulation, and the second 6" layer is resting on the hat channel.\n\n\n
there are diminishing returns for how much pink insulation you add. Generally beyond r30/38 you will not hear any difference and you are just wasting money\n\n\n
I did see an improvement when adding the second layer of insulation (graph) but that was before I put in the ceiling.\n\n\n
I'd just fill the existing cavity and leave it alone\n\n\n
I also wanted to lower the resonating frequency by having a larger cavity depth.\n\n\n
The discontinuous pieces used here really won't add much strength and full span lumber would be preferred.\n\n\n
Yes, if I was doing this for strength I would sister with full length, and probably use 2x10s. This was mostly just for the height.\n", "timestamp": 1525172990}, {"author": "Angela", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/939437013572?comment_id=939573764522", "anchor": "fb-939573764522", "service": "fb", "text": "Jeff, in your research, did you determine anything particularly effective that can be done by the upstairs tenants to reduce noise pollution to downstairs neighbors? Daniel and I are moving into a new place where the landlady lives in the apartment below, and we'd like to disturb her as little as possible.", "timestamp": "1525117970"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/939437013572?comment_id=939573764522&reply_comment_id=939574103842", "anchor": "fb-939573764522_939574103842", "service": "fb", "text": "→ How intensive are you talking about? Are you interested in putting down concrete, then something sprung, then a new floor?", "timestamp": "1525118176"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/939437013572?comment_id=939573764522&reply_comment_id=939574183682", "anchor": "fb-939573764522_939574183682", "service": "fb", "text": "→ There are a bunch of options, but the good ones all involve putting in a new floor", "timestamp": "1525118218"}, {"author": "Angela", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/939437013572?comment_id=939573764522&reply_comment_id=939574263522", "anchor": "fb-939573764522_939574263522", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Well, we'll be the renters, so no, we can't actually modify the apartment to that degree.", "timestamp": "1525118240"}, {"author": "Angela", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/939437013572?comment_id=939573764522&reply_comment_id=939574463122", "anchor": "fb-939573764522_939574463122", "service": "fb", "text": "→ I guess I'm wondering whether there are area rugs designed specifically for the purpose?", "timestamp": "1525118263"}, {"author": "Angela", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/939437013572?comment_id=939573764522&reply_comment_id=939574652742", "anchor": "fb-939573764522_939574652742", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Like, a regular area rug is probably better than nothing, but probably not the best we could do, right?", "timestamp": "1525118288"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/939437013572?comment_id=939573764522&reply_comment_id=939574777492", "anchor": "fb-939573764522_939574777492", "service": "fb", "text": "→ I didn't look that far in this direction, sorry!", "timestamp": "1525118356"}, {"author": "Angela", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/939437013572?comment_id=939573764522&reply_comment_id=939574817412", "anchor": "fb-939573764522_939574817412", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Thanks!", "timestamp": "1525118381"}, {"author": "Danner", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/939437013572?comment_id=939573764522&reply_comment_id=939575960122", "anchor": "fb-939573764522_939575960122", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Mass is a great dampener, maybe a acoustic rubber mat under your rug, it would change some amount of the vibration to heat. It's used in cars a lot, and also under flooring... but under a rug might work too. It's not cheap though. But basically, more mass, less noise.", "timestamp": "1525119015"}, {"author": "Angela", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/939437013572?comment_id=939573764522&reply_comment_id=939576324392", "anchor": "fb-939573764522_939576324392", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Thanks Danner!", "timestamp": "1525119256"}, {"author": "David Chudzicki", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/939437013572?comment_id=939573764522&reply_comment_id=939595076812", "anchor": "fb-939573764522_939595076812", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Jeff and/or Julia put a rubber mat in our dining room for this purpose. I don't know how much it helped.", "timestamp": "1525127238"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/939437013572?comment_id=939573764522&reply_comment_id=939617736402", "anchor": "fb-939573764522_939617736402", "service": "fb", "text": "→ It didn't help noticably", "timestamp": "1525138748"}, {"author": "Michael", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/939437013572?comment_id=939573764522&reply_comment_id=939628120592", "anchor": "fb-939573764522_939628120592", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Rubber pucks like those used to quiet washing machines, with a plywood floor over that. Now if I could just remember who I gave those sheets of lead-lined plywood to!
But it still wouldn't be cheap.", "timestamp": "1525140667"}, {"author": "Hollis", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/939437013572?comment_id=939573764522&reply_comment_id=939632062692", "anchor": "fb-939573764522_939632062692", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Have you considered pouring concrete on top of the existing floor and then pretending like it was always that way? Should have plenty of mass, and not that expensive unless you do it properly.", "timestamp": "1525143122"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/939437013572?comment_id=939573764522&reply_comment_id=939632681452", "anchor": "fb-939573764522_939632681452", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Hollis or drill a few subtle holes, one per joist bay, and pump concrete into the space above your neighbor's ceiling!", "timestamp": "1525143653"}, {"author": "Hollis", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/939437013572?comment_id=939573764522&reply_comment_id=939633330152", "anchor": "fb-939573764522_939633330152", "service": "fb", "text": "→ I am not an expert but I would expect this to have deleterious effects upon the structural integrity of the neighbor's ceiling, especially in an older house.", "timestamp": "1525144183"}, {"author": "Hollis", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/939437013572?comment_id=939573764522&reply_comment_id=939633365082", "anchor": "fb-939573764522_939633365082", "service": "fb", "text": "→ although I suppose that if one continued pumping the concrete in there, eventually the neighbors wouldn't care anymore. :(", "timestamp": "1525144213"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/939437013572?comment_id=939573764522&reply_comment_id=939635306192", "anchor": "fb-939573764522_939635306192", "service": "fb", "text": "→ I'm pretty sure lathe and plaster can hold anything you put on it.", "timestamp": "1525145457"}, {"author": "Alice", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/939437013572?comment_id=939573764522&reply_comment_id=939828938152", "anchor": "fb-939573764522_939828938152", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Angela my experience is that a rug helps way more than I thought it would. Bare floors are very loud I think.", "timestamp": "1525275678"}, {"author": "Phillip", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/939437013572?comment_id=939573764522&reply_comment_id=980721758612", "anchor": "fb-939573764522_980721758612", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Angela Pads under rugs can make huge comfort difference in how plush the rug feels (my father would buy middle of the road carpet but top of the line padding). Also they make it a lot more quite. Please rotate them at least once a year, or the pad can start to get stuck to the floor (had to remove a 30 year pad from wood floors, and it was challenging).", "timestamp": "1549479676"}, {"author": "Mae", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/107591005438840138933", "anchor": "gp-1545070532561", "service": "gp", "text": "Hi Jeff, I have been researching similar methods for reducing the noise in a first floor condo I recently purchased which has a heartbreaking amount of impact noise due to a sticky situation with the new renters upstairs having large dogs, and one is an enthusiastic young dog. Though the dogs are hopefully temporary and not technically allowed there, footsteps for some people are also problematic below, and the STC rating could be much better. Do you have any idea how much that double layer of gwb with Green Glue added to the effectiveness of your assembly? Or really if the Green Glue is necessary. In my case the upstairs flooring is laminate wood, then there is a radiant heating system, then there is plywood, engineered wood joists, and currently we think a directly fixed single layer of 5/8\" gwb. I was looking at pricing ceiling demo, then adding r-19 fiberglass between joists, hanging the new ceiling from RSIC-1's and 25 guage hat channel, 2 layers of 5/8\", and a perimeter acoustic sealant. Just wondering if you had any insight on whether or not adding green glue is necessary and if you had not added mass to the floor if you think the assembly would have suffered? Thanks so much for your time. Congrats on your successful project here, I enjoyed reading about your process.", "timestamp": 1545070532}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/103013777355236494008", "anchor": "gp-1545142514769", "service": "gp", "text": "@Mae\n I don't know much more than I wrote in the post, but what you're proposing sounds good. I would expect putting green glue between your two layers of 5/8\" not to add too much cost or effort, and do a lot for sound, but I don't know.\n
\n
\nIt's also hard for me to tell how much benefit came from putting drywall and green glue on the underside of the subfloor. I could see arguments for a lot (damp the noise at the source) or not that much (a ceiling that can vibrate is much better).", "timestamp": 1545142514}, {"author": "Mae", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/107591005438840138933", "anchor": "gp-1545164814614", "service": "gp", "text": "Thanks Jeff. Appreciate it!\n
", "timestamp": 1545164814}]}