{"items": [{"author": "Bill", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/254488511312668?comment_id=254504007977785", "anchor": "fb-254504007977785", "service": "fb", "text": "If you get injuried you're not the only one involved in getting you to a hospital. It'll take MBTA staff, and probably an ambulance. It's an added burden on the system. And will probably shut the train down. When i was in the Coast Guard we had a day off while floating in the middle of the Carribeans so we were given a \"swim call\" which meant you could jump off the boat for a dip. The ship is all metal [as is everything on a subway] and one guy slipped, hit some metal and split his foot completely open. He had to be medi-vacced out. If I was on the train and you were the cause of the train delay I'd be pretty pissed. If they don't have a policy they should. I'm on the safety committee where I work so we think about this stuff all the time.", "timestamp": "1332513741"}, {"author": "John", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/254488511312668?comment_id=254508574643995", "anchor": "fb-254508574643995", "service": "fb", "text": "@Bill Jeff's big point is whether there is a policy or not, or whether the driver was just making it up and/or using his judgement. Your point shows the possible wisdom of such a policy. Of course the policy could say - the bus driver may use his judgement about safety issues when deciding to deny someone a ride or requesting that they leave a bus.", "timestamp": "1332514340"}, {"author": "Bill", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/254488511312668?comment_id=254509691310550", "anchor": "fb-254509691310550", "service": "fb", "text": "And another thing [I could go on and on], recently at our dance someone was dancing barefoot. Glenside has a great floor with the exception of a few water damaged areas. In those areas the wood is breaking up and splintering just a bit. That person found one of those areas and got a splinter that stopped her from dancing, and one of her friends that worked on it for over an hour and required a visit to the doctor after failing to get it out. All your weight goes on your feet. I'd rather dance than take chances with barefeet.", "timestamp": "1332514482"}, {"author": "Taviy", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/254488511312668?comment_id=254510397977146", "anchor": "fb-254510397977146", "service": "fb", "text": "@Bill also there's the question of how likely bare feet are to slip on a dry surface (likelihood zero) which makes the shipboard example a poor one. But to Jeff's original topic, it's quite likely that there is no footwear policy, but that the culture of wearing shoes is so ingrained and dominant in our society that most MBTA employees simply assume a policy exists...", "timestamp": "1332514568"}, {"author": "Bill", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/254488511312668?comment_id=254514511310068", "anchor": "fb-254514511310068", "service": "fb", "text": "I think there's a fine line of deciding what is common sense. Is there a policy on stabbing yourself with a pocket knife in the leg while on the MBTA. Does there have to be a policy for everything? I would bet you could find some potential slippery thing in any subway system almost anytime.", "timestamp": "1332515046"}, {"author": "Bill", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/254488511312668?comment_id=254516164643236", "anchor": "fb-254516164643236", "service": "fb", "text": "I also wouldn't be surprised if there was a pocily that tell the drivers that if they see something they consider to be unsafe that they can refuse to let a person on the bus or train.", "timestamp": "1332515252"}, {"author": "Bill", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/254488511312668?comment_id=254516434643209", "anchor": "fb-254516434643209", "service": "fb", "text": "Like John said.", "timestamp": "1332515296"}, {"author": "Andrew", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/254488511312668?comment_id=254522794642573", "anchor": "fb-254522794642573", "service": "fb", "text": "I can't go barefoot or wear sandals in my office (though I would prefer to), we make robots on a production floor, we have a machine shop, and so forth. The T is not a machine shop. It caters to children and the elderly, and is maintained so as not to be hazardous to its riders, including those who wear flimsy footwear, and should also be safe enough to ride barefoot.
That said, I understand that there are foot-injury hazards on the street, on the T, and on dance floors. I dance with very thin jazz slippers. They don't protect from stomping hazards, but they have kept the skin on my feet from getting torn by splinters and metal nails.
What do you do about mitigating risk? Be vigilant about hazards? Make sure floors are clean and free of rusty nails? Force people to wear safety shoes? At a dance, you can either force everyone to wear steel-toed safety dancing shoes to protect them, or prohibit people from wearing them so they don't break other dancers' toes.
What happens when someone goes barefoot or in sandals and gets their toe eaten by the T escalator, in an accident that could have been prevented with common close-toed footwear? \"Who pays?\" is a reasonable question to ponde.
I think I'm with John. I think making up regulations on the spot is the bastion of the petty bureaucrat. As John implies, I think the T drivers are told to use their judgement when dealing with what they consider dangerous behavior. So the driver saying, \"I think it's dangerous and I'm using my judgement and authority\" is within reason (though maybe wrong), in the absence of a rule that protects barefoot riders. My big problem is citing the non-existent rule.
This problem is similar to the \"no shirt no shoes no service\" signs that are prevalent in restaurants and other places. While I think it's legal to have them, I don't know the details on whether it's legal to enforce them.
http://www.unshod.org/pfbc/pfrestuarants.htm
I don't have a good answer to this problem, but I think it's sensible to understand the questions.", "timestamp": "1332516098"}, {"author": "Bill", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/254488511312668?comment_id=254533807974805", "anchor": "fb-254533807974805", "service": "fb", "text": "I grew up around Boston. The only good way to get to the Boston Garden is by subway. So lots of hockey player and fans take the subway; the practice of clearing ones nose out via closing one nostil with a finger and blowing what you got out the other is common practice. I'm still in favor of shoes even if you think it's oppressive.", "timestamp": "1332517437"}, {"author": "Danner", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/254488511312668?comment_id=254570091304510", "anchor": "fb-254570091304510", "service": "fb", "text": "I follow the bus driver's word in an immediate situation, but I agree with what jeff is doing, I wouldn't let a bus driver hide behind a non-existent 'law\" in order to say that he doesn't like barefoot people on his bus, if he doesn't like barefeet, he can just say so, and then we can work on that situation.
To those that think that going barefoot is 'dangerous', 'dirty' or 'could cause liability', I don't think these are valid reasons to limit my barefootness based on cultural myths. I've gotten one splinter in 10 years of dancing barefoot(leaf, fall 2012, constructed plywood floor), never gotten a puncture from glass, and certainly never thought that I could sue a place either because they let barefoot people in, or because of an injury that happened on their premises because I was barefoot. to expect to follow rules that don't exist in order not to make trouble seems absurd.", "timestamp": "1332522099"}, {"author": "Chris", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/113655034640522665762", "anchor": "gp-1332524115158", "service": "gp", "text": "Put yourself in the shoes (no pun intended) of an organization billions of dollars in the hole and ask yourself if it's prudent to explicitly allow people to walk around barefoot when contractors and T employees walking in the tunnels, or anywhere else in the system for that matter, are tracking 50+ year-old bits of hardware and hazardous materials like chromium on their boots.\n
\n
\nRegarding drivers or employees enforcing rules that technically don't exist, now put yourself in the said employee's shoes (NPI) and ask whether you're interested in opening yourself up personally to the risks outlined above coming either from the barefoot rider OR your employer, whose litigation pockets are a lot deeper than yours. All so you can respect someone's right to ride barefoot? I don't blame T employees for a second...\n
\n
\nLastly...say you DO happen to befall an unfortunate exposure or accident while riding the T (the risk isn't zero, and don't say it is) and land yourself in the hospital with a nasty bill over your head because your open wound was infected or contaminated by \"some means under the MBTA's responsibility.\" 10 years clean or not, you expect me to believe you wouldn't go after them?\n
\n
\nI don't disagree with the premise that you should be able to do what you want when there aren't rules governing it. And it's especially frustrating to deal with this in the context of a massive agency like the MBTA. I'm all for personal freedom, but I just felt compelled to bang home the risk aspect...\n
\n
\nKudos to you, \n@Jeff Kaufman\n for getting your hands dirty on this one.", "timestamp": 1332524115}, {"author": "Scott", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/254488511312668?comment_id=254602287967957", "anchor": "fb-254602287967957", "service": "fb", "text": "I don't really like arguments against bare feet, or anything at all, that are based solely on \"what-ifs.\" There are simply too many what-ifs, and if we relied only on what-if scenarios to dictate policy, nothing of any sort would be allowed. I also wish people in positions of power would be more like sports officials at the pro level, whose training requires they have encyclopedic knowledge of the rules, and who essentially never make a mistake when it comes to knowing the rulebook.", "timestamp": "1332526220"}, {"author": "Bill", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/254488511312668?comment_id=254618211299698", "anchor": "fb-254618211299698", "service": "fb", "text": "Hopefully one day everyone can get a chance to see a foot split open. Our imagination is one of the gifts we have that keep us alive. You don't have to tell your kids not to run with scissors but knowing how often they fall and the use of your imagination you can usually do. If you don't visit the what-ifs sceneros you will have accidents. Don't pick-up around your house for a month and see if someone doesn't have an issue.", "timestamp": "1332528111"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/254488511312668?comment_id=254633257964860", "anchor": "fb-254633257964860", "service": "fb", "text": "@Bill: having your foot split open is really bad, but it's also not common. If it were, wearing flip-flops would also be foolish.", "timestamp": "1332529822"}, {"author": "Bill", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/254488511312668?comment_id=254663691295150", "anchor": "fb-254663691295150", "service": "fb", "text": "Apparently I'm in the wrong conversation. I wouldn't wear flip-flops anywhere but the beach.", "timestamp": "1332533565"}, {"author": "Danner", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/254488511312668?comment_id=254666591294860", "anchor": "fb-254666591294860", "service": "fb", "text": "Jeff, you could fashion some 'soleless sandals' which are just a strap around a toe and your ankle, that look like flipflops. test how minimal you can get before a shoe isn't a shoe.", "timestamp": "1332533914"}, {"author": "Bill", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/254488511312668?comment_id=254694827958703", "anchor": "fb-254694827958703", "service": "fb", "text": "My dress and footware are more of a contra-Amish combo.", "timestamp": "1332537429"}, {"author": "Todd", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/112947709146257842066", "anchor": "gp-1332547852789", "service": "gp", "text": "Is not wearing shoes really much more dangerous then any number of other things that you could do perfectly legally on the bus, though?\n
\n
\nTake falling asleep, for example- I'd think you'd be much more likely to (say) have something stolen if you fall asleep, then to get some kind of injury from not wearing shoes (particularly if you often don't wear shoes).\n
\n
\nI honestly don't think that safety or health are the fundamental causes for objection, regardless of their potential validity. People just think it's weird for others not to wear shoes.", "timestamp": 1332547852}, {"author": "Bill", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/254488511312668?comment_id=254799377948248", "anchor": "fb-254799377948248", "service": "fb", "text": "I didn't realize how chatty I would be on this subject, what a bizzare nerve to hit. But another thing I thought of today is that I used to ride a motorcycle and after while I realized I was spending most of my time watching the raod for the next crack, pothole, branch. And it just wasn't as fun as it looked. I suspect that would be the case with barefeet. I'd rather be thinking about tunes.", "timestamp": "1332551924"}, {"author": "David German", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/111229345142780712481", "anchor": "gp-1332562478858", "service": "gp", "text": "@Chris\n \"...you expect me to believe you wouldn't go after them?\"\n
\n
\nYou don't know \n@Jeff Kaufman\n very well, do you?", "timestamp": 1332562478}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/103013777355236494008", "anchor": "gp-1332590294701", "service": "gp", "text": "@David German\n \n@Chris\n I haven't actually made any claims about what I would do if I were hurt on the MBTA. But yes; if I said I wouldn't do it, I would keep to that.", "timestamp": 1332590294}, {"author": "Pat", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/254488511312668?comment_id=255028084592044", "anchor": "fb-255028084592044", "service": "fb", "text": "I grew up going almost entirely barefoot (in the country) and continued through college. But now, I've seen too much of cities to want to go barefoot anywhere in them. ESPECIALLY not on trains. Yuk.", "timestamp": "1332593400"}, {"author": "Chris", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/113655034640522665762", "anchor": "gp-1332593484759", "service": "gp", "text": "The world needs more people like Jeff.", "timestamp": 1332593484}]}