{"items": [{"author": "Todd", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/665673617612?comment_id=665674725392", "anchor": "fb-665674725392", "service": "fb", "text": "\"Sometimes I wonder whether sticking with more conventional choices might actually have been a better long term strategy, showing that normal people can give a lot and backing it up with years of practice, but the idea that doing as much good as possible might entail trying to earn more is also important.\"
The network effect for you is higher than the average person, but I'd guess still not high enough to override the direct benefits of how much you give. But I could be totally wrong about that =P", "timestamp": "1403745905"}, {"author": "Phillip", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/665673617612?comment_id=665675818202", "anchor": "fb-665675818202", "service": "fb", "text": "Jeff, as a tax preparer (part time) I can tell you that most people give 1% of their gross income or less. Many people who point out the advantages in income and costs you now enjoy are simply rationalizing their own unwillingness to give. Along with unwillingness I would say inability, because they aren't very good with managing money, thus not only do they not give, but I will venture to say they are ill prepared for retirement or significant financial emergencies.", "timestamp": "1403746626"}, {"author": "Phillip", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/665673617612?comment_id=665676117602", "anchor": "fb-665676117602", "service": "fb", "text": "A further dishonesty people have is your moving in with your parents. Families used to live this way only a couple of generations ago. As you are discovering there great strength and joy in an extended family (and more than a few moments of tension). Also, it is hard to be a blueprint when we as a society less and less cohesive.", "timestamp": "1403746886"}, {"author": "Evan", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/665673617612?comment_id=665676456922", "anchor": "fb-665676456922", "service": "fb", "text": "Mr. Kaufman, you, and your wife, have become very public examples of what effective altruism looks like because your lifestyle is what seems most similar to the typical American, or whatever. The fact that you can get married, have children, pursue great careers, and stay connected to the community you've had your whole lives is something that everyone who might want to save the world doesn't want to lose as they commit to a cause. The fact that you're able to donate so much, so effectively, without taking a vow of poverty, without appearing so unusual that it costs you socially, and without becoming the sort of activist who dedicates so much of their time that they end up turning away people who aren't in the exact same position is a boon for the rest of us.
On your personal blog, on Less Wrong, and on the effective altruism website, your meticulous breakdown of your own expenses, and your commitment to analysis, fair discussion, and transparency makes you a role model. Additionally, on Ms. Wise's blog, Giving Gladly, and also her involvement with the effective altruism community, she demonstrates what personal struggles one might face in the pursuit of a lifestyle of effective altruism, and how they can be dealt with. As a moderator of the effective altruism self-help group, Ms. Wise has personally helped me a lot, and provided comfort to others. Her professional background also helps with this.
By showing us other effective altruists what it means to appear weird, but to still be normal, is what's helped me continue to believe I can muster the will to pursue a similar lifestyle. I used to be afraid I wouldn't be able to, but the more I notice other effective altruists doing this, the more secure I feel. Your family was the first one to do this, and continues to do it more than any other effective altruists. To those who are already aspiring to be effective altruists, your dedication, and willingness to publicly share your life, makes the lifestyle look more, not less, approachable. I don't know how to compare that to the other costs of what you're trying to do, but I wanted you to notice that positive externality for us.
It's not a secret that pat of what goes on at The Centre for Effective Altruism is managing the image of effective altruism as a social movement. For all you've done in that regard, I feel the rest of us can return the favor by helping you address your queries, if you would ask it of us.", "timestamp": "1403747079"}, {"author": "Elissa", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/665673617612?comment_id=665676711412", "anchor": "fb-665676711412", "service": "fb", "text": "My intuition says that for social network effects, it's more important to optimize for good-story than for not-weird. It might still be hard to frame the living with parents favorably, I guess.", "timestamp": "1403747275"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/665673617612?comment_id=665679585652", "anchor": "fb-665679585652", "service": "fb", "text": "@Harriet: Happy to talk whenever. jeff@jefftk.com or 617-871-0237", "timestamp": "1403748900"}, {"author": "Jillian", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/665673617612?comment_id=665680563692", "anchor": "fb-665680563692", "service": "fb", "text": "Are you happy? I feel like that's more important than winning on points anyway.
Trying to convince people that living on less is satisfying is hard. I've had students tell me they'd love to go into education, but they know they wouldn't make enough money if they did. I've never wanted for anything as an adult, but it's hard to convince people they will adapt.", "timestamp": "1403749454"}, {"author": "Jillian", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/665673617612?comment_id=665681257302", "anchor": "fb-665681257302", "service": "fb", "text": "Also, you have to worry about making people feel defensive because they feel guilty about making more conventional but less morally pure life choices. I have no idea how you do that, though.", "timestamp": "1403749833"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/665673617612?comment_id=665681416982", "anchor": "fb-665681416982", "service": "fb", "text": "@Jillian: I'm pretty happy, though I think I would be happy with most ways I could have gone. Lucky to have a high set point.
I'm not sure what you mean by \"that's more important than winning on points\", though?
(And congratulations! I've been enjoying the various station photos.)", "timestamp": "1403749959"}, {"author": "Jillian", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/665673617612?comment_id=665681571672", "anchor": "fb-665681571672", "service": "fb", "text": "Optimizing looks like a very dry and mathematical thing, and optimizing for altruism is in its way just as dry and mathematical as optimizing for revenue. Both are versions of what I would call \"winning on points\". Most people don't reduce their lives to the math, but judge them based on more nebulous quantities.
(And thanks!)", "timestamp": "1403750060"}, {"author": "Jillian", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/665673617612?comment_id=665681771272", "anchor": "fb-665681771272", "service": "fb", "text": "(I'm always hesitant to comment here because you're sneakily mirroring it over to the Google-searchable internet, but I feel like the comments I'm making here are things I wouldn't mind having associated with my name forever.)", "timestamp": "1403750195"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/665673617612?comment_id=665681901012", "anchor": "fb-665681901012", "service": "fb", "text": "(@Jillian: If you'd like I can set it to mirror your comments as \"Jillian\" or \"JW\" or something, or I can have it exclude your comments all together. Would that be helpful?)", "timestamp": "1403750261"}, {"author": "Jillian", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/665673617612?comment_id=665682110592", "anchor": "fb-665682110592", "service": "fb", "text": "It would make me feel more comfortable, but I can't be the only one who's unnerved by it, and I only discovered that you were doing it after I'd written some comments and had them mirrored. Maybe there should be a disclaimer or something?", "timestamp": "1403750339"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/665673617612?comment_id=665682390032", "anchor": "fb-665682390032", "service": "fb", "text": "I like including people's comments because then people who refuse to use facebook can still read them, and I haven't figured out a good way to do a disclaimer. A few people (~5) have asked me to abbreviate their names or skip their comments over the years and I've been happy to do this.
I've switched yours to say \"Jillian\" now. Any old blog comments that were showing up on searches for your name should disappear as Google reindexes.", "timestamp": "1403750564"}, {"author": "Jillian", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/665673617612?comment_id=665682509792", "anchor": "fb-665682509792", "service": "fb", "text": "I appreciate it. Be careful, though -- it's bad when the terms of service for commenting on your blog are even *more* opaque than the terms of service for using Facebook. And copying people's comments somewhere open without their consent seems like terrible form to me. (Even if the Facebook version is also open, which I suspect it is.)", "timestamp": "1403750644"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/665673617612?comment_id=665688043702", "anchor": "fb-665688043702", "service": "fb", "text": "@Jillian: I'm trying to balance the desires of the people who hate Facebook against the people who don't want their comments to show up in Google. I had the impression that few people minded the mirroring, but maybe they've just been getting silently annoyed with me. Perhaps I should just switch to firstname-by-default?
(This was a lot easier when including comments via javascript meant search engines wouldn't index them.)", "timestamp": "1403752194"}, {"author": "Jillian", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/665673617612?comment_id=665688542702", "anchor": "fb-665688542702", "service": "fb", "text": "I think people might be more comfortable with firstname-by-default. Or initials by default. Or Firstname Lastinitial. Anything other than the full legal string. The truly paranoid are using aliases on Facebook, but most of us aren't.
Isn't there a way that you can add a disclaimer to that line in the crosspost that says JEFFTK.COM? Or do you really not have that much control over whatever software is being used to mirror things?", "timestamp": "1403752334"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/665673617612?comment_id=665688627532", "anchor": "fb-665688627532", "service": "fb", "text": "I've switched it to firstname only.", "timestamp": "1403752398"}, {"author": "Jillian", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/665673617612?comment_id=665688931922", "anchor": "fb-665688931922", "service": "fb", "text": "Thanks.
I may be projecting, but I think that the lack of pushback you've seen on Facebook is probably three types of people:
1) People who genuinely don't care.
2) People who haven't realized you're doing it.
3) People who assume from the fact that you're doing something so surprising and uncomfortable that trying to convince you to stop is not going to work.", "timestamp": "1403752615"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/665673617612?comment_id=665688961862", "anchor": "fb-665688961862", "service": "fb", "text": "\"Isn't there a way that you can add a disclaimer to that line in the crosspost that says JEFFTK.COM? Or do you really not have that much control over whatever software is being used to mirror things?\"
I have full control over what shows up on jefftk.com; I wrote the software. It's a bit of a hack, but at least in theory I can make it do whatever I want.
But I'm not sure where the disclaimer would go. The basic problem is that the comment posting interface to my blog just looks like filling out an fb or g+ comment (and in fact is exactly that). Someone can post a comment without reading anything on jefftk.com.
EDIT: I see, you're talking about the bit on facebook where it says \"JEFFTK.com\". Unfortunately facebook does that and I can't change it.
In the past everyone but one has just wanted me to switch them to firstname only posting, so I'm optimistic that the new \"firstname only by default\" will be enough.", "timestamp": "1403752650"}, {"author": "Jillian", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/665673617612?comment_id=665689605572", "anchor": "fb-665689605572", "service": "fb", "text": "The SWILwiki has some kind of \"no robots\" thing at the top so Google won't index it. It seems to work. But of course you probably want the posts indexed, just not the comments.", "timestamp": "1403752897"}, {"author": "Arthur", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/665673617612?comment_id=665690249282", "anchor": "fb-665690249282", "service": "fb", "text": "I had a big hostile kerfuffle go viral linked to my real name because of it, but whatever", "timestamp": "1403753143"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/665673617612?comment_id=665690374032", "anchor": "fb-665690374032", "service": "fb", "text": "@Jillian: That's a good point. I could use robots.txt to block crawlers from pulling /wsgi/json-comments/* which would hide comments from them. That's not ideal because then if people make good comments that would be helpful to people searching they won't show up, but it just puts things back to how they were about a year ago when google didn't reliably index js. I'll do that if people like.", "timestamp": "1403753219"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/665673617612?comment_id=665690453872", "anchor": "fb-665690453872", "service": "fb", "text": "@Arthur: I don't think that was about mirroring. Scott was reading the fb comments.", "timestamp": "1403753315"}, {"author": "Jillian", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/665673617612?comment_id=665690473832", "anchor": "fb-665690473832", "service": "fb", "text": "I think it would feel ... safer? We don't tend to write stuff on Facebook thinking we're writing into our permanent record on the open internet (even though we often are), and it's harder to communicate when you have to think about what your boss/students/self twenty years from now will think.", "timestamp": "1403753318"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/665673617612?comment_id=665690578622", "anchor": "fb-665690578622", "service": "fb", "text": "@Jillian: \"it's harder to communicate when you have to think about what your boss/students/self twenty years from now will think.\"
Do you feel safe enough with it limited to first name, and so probably not showing up to boss/students/selves of the future?", "timestamp": "1403753396"}, {"author": "Jillian", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/665673617612?comment_id=665690713352", "anchor": "fb-665690713352", "service": "fb", "text": "Yeah, first name is probably okay for me.
But I mean, I also have a zillion former students friended on Facebook, so I think of Facebook as a space where I have to sort of monitor myself anyway. There may be others who feel differently.", "timestamp": "1403753479"}, {"author": "Kelly", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/665673617612?comment_id=665703642442", "anchor": "fb-665703642442", "service": "fb", "text": "as a counterpoint, I want to mention that I am soundly in the category of 'genuinely don't care that you're mirroring the comments'. I don't think that what you're doing is \"surprising and uncomfortable.\" I'm posting this so that you don't think people who disagree are just remaining silent.", "timestamp": "1403767642"}, {"author": "Denise", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/665673617612?comment_id=665703687352", "anchor": "fb-665703687352", "service": "fb", "text": "Same here. I don't mind mirroring comments at all.", "timestamp": "1403767934"}, {"author": "Rick", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/665673617612?comment_id=665705738242", "anchor": "fb-665705738242", "service": "fb", "text": "I'm also in the don't mind at all category.", "timestamp": "1403775563"}, {"author": "Miranda", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/665673617612?comment_id=665706791132", "anchor": "fb-665706791132", "service": "fb", "text": "I think what you're doing is awesome. You might get some mileage out of \"impressive as hell\" and \"makes people think\", but even if you don't and you're on net losing social influence because you're less relatable, I don't think that's a basis for making decisions 5 years ago.", "timestamp": "1403778546"}, {"author": "Rob", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/665673617612?comment_id=665706980752", "anchor": "fb-665706980752", "service": "fb", "text": "You are setting a shining example of what is possible for those of us receptive to the message.
Having a kid surely buys you enough normality points.", "timestamp": "1403779292"}, {"author": "Catriona", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/665673617612?comment_id=665707120472", "anchor": "fb-665707120472", "service": "fb", "text": "There are hundreds of us modelling 'being an effective altruist while living relatively normal lives, spending money on selfish stuff'. In my opinion it's 100% a good thing that there are also some people willing to go a bit further, particularly when - like you - they come over as so happy to be doing so.", "timestamp": "1403779667"}, {"author": "Jillian", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/665673617612?comment_id=665707454802", "anchor": "fb-665707454802", "service": "fb", "text": "(Sorry for not letting this die. Note that there will be sampling bias, because the people who aren't comfortable commenting here... won't comment. Ever.)", "timestamp": "1403780271"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/665673617612?comment_id=665707839032", "anchor": "fb-665707839032", "service": "fb", "text": "(@Jillian: \"that there will be sampling bias, because the people who aren't comfortable commenting here... won't comment.\"
There still is, yes, though people can let me know out of band. Last night I got FB messages from three people telling me they wanted to be switched to first name only and that this had kept them from commenting before.)", "timestamp": "1403781009"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/665673617612?comment_id=665707983742", "anchor": "fb-665707983742", "service": "fb", "text": "@Robert: We do probably look more normal with a kid, but donating while raising a kid on a software developer's salary is definitely less relatable than doing the same on a 65th percentile salary.", "timestamp": "1403781229"}, {"author": "Rob", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/665673617612?comment_id=665715713252", "anchor": "fb-665715713252", "service": "fb", "text": "As Catriona says, we will never struggle for examples of people who are not very dedicated.", "timestamp": "1403786522"}, {"author": "Lauren", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/665673617612?comment_id=665715902872", "anchor": "fb-665715902872", "service": "fb", "text": "(Just for a data point, I've never commented due to the mirroring, so thanks for making it first-name-only!)", "timestamp": "1403786725"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/665673617612?comment_id=665718637392", "anchor": "fb-665718637392", "service": "fb", "text": "(Expanded discussion on comments into a full post: http://www.jefftk.com/p/comments-are-now-first-names .)", "timestamp": "1403789179"}, {"author": "William", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/665673617612?comment_id=665721576502", "anchor": "fb-665721576502", "service": "fb", "text": "\"When we give numbers on income they're now high enough that I worry about people saying \"well, sure, earning that much you can afford to be generous.\" \"
Jeff - my worry would be exactly the opposite! My regular-person reaction to you as a story is something like \"Wow, they live on only $15,000 between them, and they live with his parents? And now they have a kid to support? They could still give a very substantial proportion of their income and live on double that. These people are crazy extreme.\" I'd bet that most people are similar; I'd think that the Zell Kravinsky risk is greater than the easy-for-you risk.
(And, of course, my actual reaction to your story is that you're an amazing inspiration!)", "timestamp": "1403791220"}, {"author": "Danny", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/665673617612?comment_id=665735812972", "anchor": "fb-665735812972", "service": "fb", "text": "Is there a post on which causes you are supporting?", "timestamp": "1403801590"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/665673617612?comment_id=665736985622", "anchor": "fb-665736985622", "service": "fb", "text": "@Danny: At this point we mostly follow GiveWell's recommendations: http://www.givewell.org/charities/top-charities", "timestamp": "1403802200"}, {"author": "Christopher", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/665673617612?comment_id=665772279892", "anchor": "fb-665772279892", "service": "fb", "text": "I assume everything I write is recorded somewhere I have no control. But I also woek for the government. I also doubt that Jeff has many friends who don't understand him well enough to be unwilling to raise an issue with him because they think he is unwilling to listen. I would put the number of such friends at 0 to 3.", "timestamp": "1403824626"}, {"author": "Will", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/115623320734956550423", "anchor": "gp-1403882221539", "service": "gp", "text": "I had a fit of dyslexia and read the title of this as \"Optimizing Weird Looks.\" I kept waiting to read something about fashion signaling or the like.", "timestamp": 1403882221}, {"author": "Josh", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/665673617612?comment_id=665930003812", "anchor": "fb-665930003812", "service": "fb", "text": "Everything you post on Facebook is on the public internet. Shrug.", "timestamp": "1403949191"}]}