{"items": [{"author": "Rebecca", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/108076092316272654620", "anchor": "gp-1312739381243", "service": "gp", "text": "This is a very cool idea. One complication I foresee is modifiers--many calls have multiple components to indicate figure, direction/hand, duration (ie allemand, right, halfway). If the system is to serve the same function as a keyword call, there is a decided advantage in being able to say something like \"right\" or \"halfway\". But incorporating modifiers would necessarily introduce more complexity into the system. Thoughts?", "timestamp": 1312739381}, {"author": "Danner", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/114987071963782993407", "anchor": "gp-1312740833838", "service": "gp", "text": "I like this idea, but there are several difficulties with color interfaces. first off, alienating blind and color-blind people. Usually this is dealt with via shapes and symbols for color-blind interfaces. It could also be dealt with via motion of the lights. in your question about how many colors a human can distinguish, i refer you you xkcd's excellent color survey, \nhttp://blog.xkcd.com/2010/05/03/color-survey-results/\n
\n
\nWe should work on minimum viable functionality that allows for further expansion. arbitrary shapes and colors would certainly be enough, perhaps a projector? as far as explaining a short vocabulary of words, I think we should tune into what callers say as they simplify their calls as a dance progresses. \"gents take left hands and allemande 1 1/2 times in the center\" shortens to \"gents in the center once and a half\" and finally to \"gents\" as a prompt. im not suggesting blue and pink here, but some connotation of who takes action in the next move might be interesting. as far as what each move is, i'm not sure what type of shape and color information we can conjure up, other than the simple ones.\n
\n
\nI'm totally interested in developing this further, esp. since it does not need to adjust a dance in any way, we can test it out without interfering with a dance, until we are ready to give it a more upgraded role. time to make some lists and write some code?", "timestamp": 1312740833}, {"author": "Danner", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/114987071963782993407", "anchor": "gp-1312741373716", "service": "gp", "text": "other possibly useful resources: Road Sign Design, \nhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_sign_design\n, \nhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QypmXbwD1k", "timestamp": 1312741373}, {"author": "b", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/109680641548243670506", "anchor": "gp-1312741897686", "service": "gp", "text": "very interesting idea, but please do keep the color-vision-impaired in mind here.\n
\n
\n@Danner: that xkcd link is a survey of which colors people will default to assigning distinct names to, not which ones they can distinguish. we only need the latter here.", "timestamp": 1312741897}, {"author": "Phillip", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/203965072990394?comment_id=203987846321450", "anchor": "fb-203987846321450", "service": "fb", "text": "I am red green color blind. From the few other color blind people to whom I have talked I would say my color blindness is not very severe. I can see red, and I know this sounds strange, but I have to concentrate. That would be my concern. I am already using sight as my primary means of knowing where I am. It would mean that I would have to divide my processing of sight data. In my case that would require a high level of concentration. When I am dancing I primarily listen for the calls, and secondarily use the beat for phrase timing (most dances are so well written that the time to complete the move falls within how long it takes to get there, You do have to listen for swings, and you probably notice that many couples take a little extra swing time). My biggest concern is that long term you will make the dances less accessible to newcomers. People with experience would get it, while the newcomer learning curve would now be that much higher. In the 80s I experienced a lot of contra snobbery. The current ethos is a huge turn around with everyone being very welcoming (and BIDA dances being even better, I love those signs).", "timestamp": "1312741955"}, {"author": "Rebecca", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/108076092316272654620", "anchor": "gp-1312742730011", "service": "gp", "text": "It's worth noting that there are several Deaf dancers out there, and this would likely improve their dance experience quite a bit (assuming they're not also colorblind). Light signals plus music with enough bass to feel through the floor could make for one extremely accessible dance, and as long as verbal calling is still somewhat preserved, colorblind folks are not at too much of a disadvantage.\n
\nIn fact, in a dance that was called only with lights (which is not, I think, something that anyone's suggesting), colorblind dancers would be in a similar situation as Deaf dancers now, with the significant added benefit of hearing the beat and phrasing of the music. And those Deaf dancers manage pretty well. \n
\n
\nWith a consistent enough group of dancers, I wonder if it would be feasible to enact this without any teaching or even an announcement, and let the color-figure associations form all on their own.", "timestamp": 1312742730}, {"author": "Al", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/203965072990394?comment_id=203998806320354", "anchor": "fb-203998806320354", "service": "fb", "text": "also this would mean that dancers would need to take their focus off their partner to watch a caller/color, where with a call, the dancers can focus on each other and collectively listen for the dance call..", "timestamp": "1312743543"}, {"author": "Danner", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/114987071963782993407", "anchor": "gp-1312743925672", "service": "gp", "text": "just a note for people on google plus, if you put a plus in front of someones name, you tag them. not an at symbol. heres looking at you, +\n@benjamin\n. \n
\n
\n@benjamin\n, yes, my link isn't quite right. however, since there are so many issues with relative colors(want to get really pissed off? \nhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xl1lLze5ZpM\n) you must consider how many colors can get uniquely identified. Randall has more than one post of the results of his color survey, other posts go into the part that you discuss. in any event, you need to either have color in relation to something else, or very distinctive colors to not confuse people(men, more than women, apparently). \n
\n
\n@Becky\n , good call on the deaf dancers. I interacted with quite a few deaf dancers and musicians in Rochester, NY, I should hit them up for some feedback about what works and what doesn't. (yes, bass is the best part, deaf party hosts had the most thumping parties ever in college)\n
\n
\nso, next up, lists of dance moves, and proposed solutions? I suggest the wiki strategy, and throw a big table together, with a dance move column, then columns for each suggested icon/color/whatever for that dance move. \nhttps://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AsDJWWq8OFFBdGI3eTNDUExNdXAyN0Z3aktUVElJT2c&hl=en_US\n is a extremely basic start, use \"Insert: Drawing\" to create a color/shape to a cell.", "timestamp": 1312743925}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/203965072990394?comment_id=204002176320017", "anchor": "fb-204002176320017", "service": "fb", "text": "@Phillip: I don't want to make contra dance harder to get into. I'm not sure that would be the effect of this, though. As a caller drops out, gradually leaving out calls that the dancers won't need, they are engaging in a delicate balancing act, trying to give the dancers what they need but not what they don't. When you say you primarily listen to the calls and only use the beat and phrase secondarily, that confuses me because at some point, usually by 1/3 through the dance, the calls are generally gone, leaving you with the beat, phrase, memory, and the other dancers.
The goal of dropping out is to get the dancers dancing as much on memory as soon as possible. Only some of the dancers need to have the dance memorized, though. The dance is robust, and as long as you have sufficient fractions of two groups it all works: (1) people who have memorized the dance and (2) people who know how to continue the dance and remember where they are with their peripheral vision if the people around them know what they are doing. With a high enough fraction of those groups, you can have a decent number of (3) new dancers without a problem. By moving some of the information to color, you make it harder for color blind dancers to get in group (1), but easier for deaf dancers. There are currently more color blind dancers, though, and I think there are also more color blind people.
Memorization from the walk through an initial calling is still possible, though; I'm not talking about doing away with those.
I'm glad you like the bida signs.", "timestamp": "1312744079"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/203965072990394?comment_id=204002502986651", "anchor": "fb-204002502986651", "service": "fb", "text": "@Al: I'm thinking of lighting that is sufficient that the room changes color. The kind of lighting change where you don't have to look anywhere to pick up on it, you just now see a green tinted room.", "timestamp": "1312744144"}, {"author": "Al", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/203965072990394?comment_id=204008426319392", "anchor": "fb-204008426319392", "service": "fb", "text": "interesting concept, but unless you have a unique color for every move and everyone agrees (fuchsia vs mauve for ladies chain or cross over),, you would need to memorize and translate a color for a move and remember this as you are dancing.
This become a translation problem (green = square through = do the steps) which now include a second time element: observe the color, translate the color to a figure, plan and execute the figure.
If the definitions changed every dance, the dancer could easily get confused. In order to have them uniquely assigned, the number of figures is so large that a large palette with very subtle color changes, that may not be differentiable to the average dancer would be needed.
very expensive theatrical LED lighting setups exist to do this, with the emphasis on VERY expensive.", "timestamp": "1312745050"}, {"author": "Joshua", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/203965072990394?comment_id=204015209652047", "anchor": "fb-204015209652047", "service": "fb", "text": "Might be kind of distracting. I wouldn't want to be doing the lights. Unless it was highly automated, it would be very tricky to remember the sequence.", "timestamp": "1312745937"}, {"author": "bill", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/108868258716671055146", "anchor": "gp-1312746696496", "service": "gp", "text": "Very cool idea, Jeff! A few comments. \n
\nI too am slightly colorblind, but the only trouble I have is what I will call \u201clight pink\u201d. I can see a strong pink and any strong shade of red (or any other color). I think most people who have some color impairment are like me, so if you use strong colors, you should be able to get information to a big segment of the \u2018color-blind\u2019 population. \n
\nI agree that the color-change cue would need to come a few beats before the change in the dance motion. After all, that is what the caller does. You could probably have a lot of fun in how you transitioned from one color to the next (fade, flash sequentially, flash back and forth\u2026 And if you were doing it live, you could even play with it, the way that a nightclub DJ sometimes plays with musical transitions). And spinning off on a tangent here, you could probably come up with a way that the transition pattern itself carried information of some kind \u2013 fade means one thing, flash means another \u2013 and develop an entire semantic rule set. But I digress\u2026\n
\nIt would be very interesting to test your theory of whether there are more differentiable colors that there are contra moves. As a caller, you know that once people begin picking up the pattern, your cues contain less information (e.g. \u2018Hey\u2019, rather than \u2018Full hey for four\u2019; or \u2018Gents\u2019 in place of \u2018Gents allemande left once and a half\u2019). You could probably combine some moves \u2013 for example, just one color for \u2018balance and swing\u2019 rather than needing one for \u2018balance\u2019 and one for \u2018swing\u2019. \n
\nTo fully test whether people could dance based on color cues alone, you could get the dance going with color cues, then fade the melody out to just a metronomic drumbeat, and see if people continue or start breaking down. On some dances, people might keep going until they came to the end effects. \n
\nGiven that most dancers are cueing off the beat of the music, you might end up not so much using color as a cue, but as an enhancement to the experience. I sometimes find random lighting to be slightly distracting, so maybe this idea would be an improvement. \n
\nThe only way to know is to try it. If you decide to do that, let me know and I\u2019ll be there!", "timestamp": 1312746696}, {"author": "Danner", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/114987071963782993407", "anchor": "gp-1312747988267", "service": "gp", "text": "in case people want to play around, make or grab a column, and start messing about! \nhttps://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AsDJWWq8OFFBdGI3eTNDUExNdXAyN0Z3aktUVElJT2c&hl=en_US", "timestamp": 1312747988}, {"author": "Tamar", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/203965072990394?comment_id=204052206315014", "anchor": "fb-204052206315014", "service": "fb", "text": "It's an interesting idea. I've found, more and more, that many dancers are having a very hard time understanding that there is a certain amount of time assigned to each move. Rather, they think they should take as much time as they want and just get to the next move whenever they feel like it. So, the issue is whether something other than beat and a caller would convince them otherwise.
As for someone who has to avoid the dances with colored, flashing lights, I guess I'd have to hear about it secondhand. They make me too dizzy to dance.", "timestamp": "1312751371"}, {"author": "John", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/100633726263571579985", "anchor": "gp-1312756961676", "service": "gp", "text": "I think it would be an interesting experiment. And how about trying it in a room with almost no lights on? But as people have said it is tough for some people with visual impairment and there are too many calls; so people would have to learn new colors - move repetitions. \n
\n
\nSpeaking of dancing to percussion, I was at Greenfield on Friday dancing to The Moving Violations and there were several dances where for a bunch of times there was only percussion - no problem hearing the phrases.", "timestamp": 1312756961}, {"author": "Peter", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/103618186481362054522", "anchor": "gp-1312758396460", "service": "gp", "text": "I think that the prevalence of color blindness (roughly 7-8% of males) makes this proposal impractical to become a commonplace practice, but doesn't preclude trying it once as an experiment. I know of a good opportunity to run such an experiment. Arisia is in the process of booking Double Apex to play a techno contra on 1/13/12. We will have a large number of color controllable lights in that room, which are controlled from a central lighting board or computer. If you or someone is willing to work with the lighting designer to either manually control the lights or implement software to control them, I can make that happen (I'm technical director of Arisia 2012.)\n
\n
\nWhile people can distinguish 1000's of colors when comparing them side by side in static conditions, I believe 8-10 colors is the most than can be distinguished reliably when flashed in the context of a dance. I suggest having a background illumination that is neutrally colored and fairly dim. The \"calling\" lights can be flashed much brighter and could include white as one of the colors. I think the amount of information conveyed could be increased by flashing two colors, though more than that is probably too complicated for people to track. Furthermore, similar pairs should probably be avoided as being too ambiguous, for example, red/orange & fuchsia/orange. Summing up the single and double color flashes, gives about 40 - 50 combinations which should cover all common calls and even some distinctions such as men/women allemande, or circle left/right. A few colors should be reserved which will not be used universally, but will signal one or more uncommon and distinctive figures in a dance such as give & take, mad robin, or ricochet. In other words, red/white will mean give & take in one dance, but mad robin in another. To accommodate more than two rare figures in a dance, several combinations should be reserved for such use.\n
\n
\nIt will probably help to give the light signal during the walk through, but I suggest it will also help to have the background light brighter for the walk through than the dance itself.", "timestamp": 1312758396}, {"author": "b", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/109680641548243670506", "anchor": "gp-1312758698541", "service": "gp", "text": "@Peter- the majority of the 'color blind' population can still discriminate a decent variety of colors, so as long as we're careful not to have too many subtle gradations, most of us should be able to muddle through, especially if this is a as a supplement to verbal calling rather than a replacement.", "timestamp": 1312758698}, {"author": "Phillip", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/203965072990394?comment_id=204118096308425", "anchor": "fb-204118096308425", "service": "fb", "text": "Jeff, FYI 8% of males and less than 1% of females are color blind. I use the calls to memorize the pattern by repetition. In the last year or so, I have begun to use phrasing on a conscious level to time my movements. A couple of summers ago Dan called a dance in Gloucester where my spouse and I were the only people with significant previous experience (though later a few more dancers came). I found it truly humbling to discover how much I depended on everyone else in the line knowing what to do. In a line with a few new people I can be an anchor, but surrounded by them my knowledge of the form was lacking. Since getting back into contra about three years ago I have learned more than in the previous 25 plus, which I ascribe to the friendliness of the current community (environment conducive to learning) and a self confidence/maturity that I have long lacked.", "timestamp": "1312761389"}, {"author": "Bill", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/203965072990394?comment_id=204191342967767", "anchor": "fb-204191342967767", "service": "fb", "text": "Doesn't look like my G+ comment propagated over to FB.", "timestamp": "1312774063"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/103013777355236494008", "anchor": "gp-1312802076444", "service": "gp", "text": "@Peter: trying this at arisia sounds interesting. One thing that makes this tricky is that if I were designing software to do this / help with this I wouldn't know how the lights would end up looking in advance. But if it turns out I have to use fewer colors during the dance, then that's throwing away some of the color associations people would have built during the dances where we were using too many colors. This is actually a general problem: we want the colors to be standardized among anywhere doing this, but not all lighting systems can do all colors. So maybe we should figure something out that doesn't use very many colors, even if the arisia system is pretty powerful.", "timestamp": 1312802076}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/103013777355236494008", "anchor": "gp-1312802226213", "service": "gp", "text": "@Danner: off topic: you actually can tag someone with an at symbol. If I start a line with '@Danner' up pops a selector for me to insert a tag for you. People writing '@Name' are doing it because they want to.", "timestamp": 1312802226}, {"author": "Rick", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/203965072990394?comment_id=204307249622843", "anchor": "fb-204307249622843", "service": "fb", "text": "Very cool idea! It would add a new dimension to a dance in an interesting way. As someone said above, I think it's true that experienced dancers would associate the colors with the calls without any explanation. Also, it might be fun to have both the music and the calling drop out for one round of the dance after people got the hang of it, and just dance silently to the lights.", "timestamp": "1312802403"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/103013777355236494008", "anchor": "gp-1312802571858", "service": "gp", "text": "@Danner: as for using shapes or other visual information than colors, ideally this would be fully peripheral. I don't want the dancers to stop paying attention to each other. I don't think there's a way to use shapes that doesn't require the dancers to look up at something big somewhere. Changing the ambient lighting color of the room is probably the only signal available.\n
\n
\nActually, if you projected something on the floor, something like the little tiny green wandering dots that the projection system \n@Nathan\n has can do, you might be able to give two signals at once.", "timestamp": 1312802571}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/103013777355236494008", "anchor": "gp-1312803317529", "service": "gp", "text": "In assigning colors, you want the color choices that transmit maximum information. So listening to a caller who is good at seeing what the dancers still need and finding out which calls they drop out last should tell you which ones are needed most. When the penalty for missing the cue is low because the possibility of reading it off the other dancers is good, calls are less needed. So partner balance and swing I can usually drop off early. Similarly down the hall; some people will end the swing facing down, anyone who forgets will be washed down the hall by a tide of dancers. It makes some sense to have a color combine similar moves (dosido, swing, gypsy, balance and swing) but probably only if the consequences of confusing of them are low. Calling is sometimes needed to distinguish ladies chain and right and left through, so you wouldn't want those to be the same color. A first pass at what we might need:\n
\n
\ncircle\n
\ntwo person move partner (dosido, swing, gypsy, aleman, balance and swing)\n
\ntwo person move non-partner (dosido, swing, gypsy, aleman, balance and swing)\n
\nstar\n
\nchain\n
\nhey\n
\nother\n
\n
\nYou probably also want something special to do with the lights to indicate repeats; a circle left followed by a circle right can't be signaled simply if both are the same color.", "timestamp": 1312803317}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/103013777355236494008", "anchor": "gp-1312803547707", "service": "gp", "text": "If you're allowing multiple flashes, and wanted to try to be unambiguous you could do flashes in a 'who', 'what', 'how', 'quantity' order:\n
\n
\nwho: partner, neighbor, ladies, gents, shadow, other\n
\nwhat: see previous post, collapsing the two 'two person move' categories\n
\nhow: left, right, ?\n
\nquantity: 0.5, 0.75, 1.0, 1.5, other", "timestamp": 1312803547}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/203965072990394?comment_id=204316536288581", "anchor": "fb-204316536288581", "service": "fb", "text": "@Joshua: I think you're right that the lighting would need to be mostly or entirely automated. Or at least have a really well designed interface.", "timestamp": "1312804316"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/203965072990394?comment_id=204317012955200", "anchor": "fb-204317012955200", "service": "fb", "text": "@bill: g+ comments aren't supposed to show up on facebook; if I had the power to set that up then I could make posts under your name on facebook saying whatever I wanted to. The comment integration I was talking about earlier is that the comments listed on the page with the blog post will include both sources.", "timestamp": "1312804413"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/203965072990394?comment_id=204317372955164", "anchor": "fb-204317372955164", "service": "fb", "text": "@Rick: dancing silently to lights would be pretty weird. If there were a lot of balances in the dance, though, and you had a crowd that makes good footnoise, you'd have the lights keeping a bunch of clogging dancers in sync.", "timestamp": "1312804480"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/203965072990394?comment_id=204318209621747", "anchor": "fb-204318209621747", "service": "fb", "text": "@Phillip: I also remember making the transition from being able to dance if the people around me had the dance memorized and were doing it right to memorizing myself. Being able to anchor in a dance that's falling apart is nice, and it's also helpful to the caller.", "timestamp": "1312804662"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/203965072990394?comment_id=204318989621669", "anchor": "fb-204318989621669", "service": "fb", "text": "@Tamar: I think these might be a little less dizzyness inducing than the colored flashy lights nathan johnson runs. Those lights go on and off in complex combinations, and they also move. The goal here is to change the color of the ambient lighting of the room, so people just pick up on the new color, so they could be still and simple.", "timestamp": "1312804821"}, {"author": "Danner", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/114987071963782993407", "anchor": "gp-1312806114369", "service": "gp", "text": "@Jeff Kaufman\n \n@Jeff Kaufman\n , Looks like both work? but @Danner doesnt ping me(and @Jeff doesn't ping you), because it isnt my \"Full Name\". Ok, I agree on the fully peripheral display, so why not try out your color schemes on the color spreadsheet? alternatively, we can try to tap into some cultural color norms(or actively oppose them?), a la \nhttp://www.color-wheel-pro.com/color-meaning.html\n to try to increase color memory between moves and their color association. If you need multiple flashes, just take up multiple columns. Why sit out there in theoretical land? try it out, and see if it works.", "timestamp": 1312806114}, {"author": "Joanna", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/116649609015922805945", "anchor": "gp-1312812052865", "service": "gp", "text": "Two issues (well, likely more than two): 1) I want to focus on my partner when I'm dancing with them, not on a color code that I have to glance at, even if quickly and peripherally 2) One of my goals as a caller is to make people less dependent on my calling, or on anything other than themselves to really know the dance. Instead I want them to be able to focus on the music, their partner, the other dancers in the line, etc. I can change my calling from sentences to single words as people learn the dance, and then drop out entirely, and come back in if disaster strikes. A system of lights does not easily allow for that kind of change or learning...", "timestamp": 1312812052}, {"author": "Peter", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/103618186481362054522", "anchor": "gp-1312812984478", "service": "gp", "text": "I think the light flashes will be obvious enough that you would be able to see then in your partner's face.\n
\n
\nI think of this whole concept like a contra medley. They can be fun, but I wouldn't want to do them all the time.", "timestamp": 1312812984}, {"author": "Robert", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/117732328885787456164", "anchor": "gp-1312818865262", "service": "gp", "text": "My initial reaction is that deciphering the color codes would be extra processing that would interfere with rather than enhance my dance experience; for example, I already know what \"left\" and \"right\" mean the instant I hear them (even if I sometimes hear \"left\" and \ndo\n \"right\"), but now there's be the extra step of remembering \"Is green 'left' or 'right'?\" And in the multiple-flashes implementation, \"Is 'how' before or after 'how much'?\", etc.", "timestamp": 1312818865}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/103013777355236494008", "anchor": "gp-1312819317722", "service": "gp", "text": "@Danner: still offtopic: pinging you is not the goal; you'll already get notification on the post, no?", "timestamp": 1312819317}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/103013777355236494008", "anchor": "gp-1312819523662", "service": "gp", "text": "@Joanna: you're right that having to glance at a color code somewhere is bad. Without a way to make the color perception effortless this isn't a good idea.\n
\n
\nI agree that one good thing about callers dropping out entirely is that the dancers end up with the dance memorized, something which these lights would limit. It'm not sure what to do about that.", "timestamp": 1312819523}, {"author": "Danner", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/114987071963782993407", "anchor": "gp-1312825508874", "service": "gp", "text": "@Jeff Kaufman\n OT: unless i've muted the thread because of all the noise from the off topic posts :-P", "timestamp": 1312825508}, {"author": "Adina", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/112210585325065595561", "anchor": "gp-1312830097480", "service": "gp", "text": "@Jeff Kaufman\n - I've been playing with ideas of how one might call for groups entirely or largely deaf, and this opens an interesting array of assistive options. \n
\n
\nIf I were associating a color with a class of move, rather than splitting it between two person partner and two person non-partner moves, I'd associate a color for four different classes of 2-person moves: partner, neighbor, men, women. When I'm calling, the 'who' is the first and often most important part, also the part dropped last as I cut back calls. If I need to remind someone what to do, simply saying \"Ladies\" is often enough to jog them into action -- even if they don't know what to do, the lady is likely to look at the other lady and see that she's trying to allemande, for example. \n
\n
\nOne might, I suppose, 'call' a simple dance entirely with colors and/or light patterns, but I would still assume full verbal teaching. As as assistive technology, I think it might be both interesting and useful, but as Peter said, not something I'd want to do all the time. What it makes me wonder is what sorts of dances might be particularly visually attractive, and what \"meanwhile\" figures would look like.", "timestamp": 1312830097}, {"author": "Rebecca", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/108076092316272654620", "anchor": "gp-1312830239014", "service": "gp", "text": "I am liking more and more the idea of just beginning to use these color flashes without any explanation, and callers continuing to call as usual. No extra processing because many people might not even realize what's going on--but how cool would it be when they did! And by the end of a several-hours-long dance program, the caller might find that they can drop out sooner because the dancers have effortlessly learned the signals. \n
\n
\nI don't know how much of an effect you'd see. But it would be a cool experiment.", "timestamp": 1312830239}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/103013777355236494008", "anchor": "gp-1312830625009", "service": "gp", "text": "@Becky\n: that would be the ideal outcome, and I agree it would be neat", "timestamp": 1312830625}, {"author": "Cos", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/107889643992296044717", "anchor": "gp-1312843690344", "service": "gp", "text": "@Danner\n : @ and + both work to tag people, and they both work exactly the same way: You start typing the name, then click on a match. Merely putting a + before someone's name won't tag them any more than merely putting @ before their name, but both @ and plus let you select a match to tag (and once you tag, you always see the name with + prepended to it, regardless of whether you typed @ or + to invoke the tag feature).", "timestamp": 1312843690}, {"author": "Cos", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/107889643992296044717", "anchor": "gp-1312843769167", "service": "gp", "text": "@Peter\n - I love the idea of doing this at Arisia, and perhaps \n@Carl\n might want to participate and do the light control?", "timestamp": 1312843769}, {"author": "Peter", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/103618186481362054522", "anchor": "gp-1312845856839", "service": "gp", "text": "@Cos\n \n@Carl\n \n@Jeff Kaufman\n Carl, are you interested? Jeff, do you want to work with Carl, or we're you interested in doing some of the tech work, yourself? I won't have time to do anything other than bring people together who can work on this and kibbitz a bit.", "timestamp": 1312845856}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/103013777355236494008", "anchor": "gp-1312846487584", "service": "gp", "text": "@Peter\n I am interested, and am game for the contra, calling, and software knowledge. I don't know anything about lighting control systems, but if there's not someone who already knows such things and wants to work on this I would learn.", "timestamp": 1312846487}, {"author": "Dan", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/203965072990394?comment_id=204639092922992", "anchor": "fb-204639092922992", "service": "fb", "text": "This might be a good strategy for hearing impaired dancers, but would add little otherwise.", "timestamp": "1312851685"}, {"author": "Carl", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/105185206629791496544", "anchor": "gp-1312936455502", "service": "gp", "text": "If you're looking to do something with programmable lights at Arisia next year, I can certainly provide some equipment for it there.\n
\nHowever, others will have to handle the software and figure out how to make it work in this context. I can consult on some parts of it, but can't commit to spending a lot of time on the design side. The lights I have use an industry standard protocol for controlling them, so there's nothing proprietary or obscure on that end of things. It sounds like there's a lot more to think about at the UI end in this context.", "timestamp": 1312936455}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/103013777355236494008", "anchor": "gp-1312980677854", "service": "gp", "text": "@Carl\n maybe we should talk by email? (jeff at alum dot swarthmore dot edu)", "timestamp": 1312980677}]}