{"items": [{"author": "Ruthan", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/657766753032?comment_id=657767626282", "anchor": "fb-657767626282", "service": "fb", "text": "Unless you just find transcription* exceptionally onerous, it seems unlikely that you'd find a MIDI solution that avoids the things you dislike.
With Corriente, I'd find it substantially easier to read if the long note in the middle of the bar was two tied sixteenths.
* If it's transcription you find onerous and not just putting things into your music software, I'd be happy to take a crack at the other two, but [think I] would find it a lot easier to do longhand.", "timestamp": "1398890075"}, {"author": "Ruthan", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/657766753032?comment_id=657767810912", "anchor": "fb-657767810912", "service": "fb", "text": "Also,
> people play rigidly from sheet music
Okay, but that is an issue with the musician, not the sheet music. :)", "timestamp": "1398890186"}, {"author": "Mark", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/657766753032?comment_id=657768334862", "anchor": "fb-657768334862", "service": "fb", "text": "The solitary sixteenth notes in duple meter are extremely disconcerting. I agree with Ruthan that it would be better to notate that as a pair of tied sixteenth notes: ESS-SSE. Personally, I would break the beam on the second beat, but I wouldn't say it's a necessity.", "timestamp": "1398890475"}, {"author": "Eloise", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/657766753032?comment_id=657769602322", "anchor": "fb-657769602322", "service": "fb", "text": "I'm good at sight-reading but am exceptionally bad at learning things by ear, and have been trying to figure out why that is. Did you always prefer learning by hearing rather than reading? Did you have training in classical music or have you always played mostly folk?", "timestamp": "1398891186"}, {"author": "Yaron", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/657766753032?comment_id=657780061362", "anchor": "fb-657780061362", "service": "fb", "text": "I know this is not answering your question, but I think it would look a lot less awkward and be somewhat easier to read if you annotated it in 4/4 instead of 2/4 and used 1/4 and 1/8 notes instead of 1/8 and 1/16 notes. (And, easier to read -> easier to transition from playing \"rigidly\" from the notes to playing the tune freely)", "timestamp": "1398896921"}, {"author": "Jonah", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/657766753032?comment_id=657780146192", "anchor": "fb-657780146192", "service": "fb", "text": "When it comes to traditional music, I don't believe that sheet music can or should be used to communicate the \"essence\" of a tune. I think it's use should be for communicating and recording (in the sense of documenting) the precise notes of a tune in an easy to reference format. That's why I would notate a tune, whether I have written it or simply wish to transcribe it for someone else or for my own future reference.
I agree that it's not the sheet music's fault if a musician plays from it robotically. If you are learning a new genre of traditional music I'd think it's best to learn almost completely, if not completely, by ear. But if you already know how to play in a particular style, then learning a tune in that style from written music works just fine if you're a decent musician.
When it comes to me learning tunes, however, my preference is to use my ear every time. This is partially just to keep my ear in shape and partially because it's easier and faster for me. But mostly it's because even if I know the style and therefore how the tune should sound, learning it from the page means it's very likely that I'll miss some of the emotion, phrasing, or (for lack of a better word) meaning behind the notes. This could be the tune's essence, as you put it, but also whatever it is that the particular player puts into the tune. In short, even if I learn the notes from the page and can make them sound great, I would have learned even more had I learned those same notes from a human musician.
Wow, this post is more rambling than a pitchfork!", "timestamp": "1398896983"}, {"author": "Victor", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/657766753032?comment_id=657784841782", "anchor": "fb-657784841782", "service": "fb", "text": "Even in classical music, the notation is an incomplete code for a piece. Similar \"dots\" written by Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Brahms or Stravinsky should be played differently if the intent is to follow the composer's intention.", "timestamp": "1398899488"}, {"author": "Ruthan", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/657766753032?comment_id=657786628202", "anchor": "fb-657786628202", "service": "fb", "text": "Yaron, it's my understanding that reels are always in 2/4. It sounds arbitrary, but musicians in this genre are used to 16th notes (maybe so much so that deviation would be a hindrance.)", "timestamp": "1398900342"}, {"author": "Warren", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/657766753032?comment_id=657790156132", "anchor": "fb-657790156132", "service": "fb", "text": "With some care and attention, Finale Pro can easily take midi input and churn it into notation. In general, you still need to go back in and clean it up, and you *do* need to play the music \"straight\" to get the best transcription (remember that the character and styling are created in the other markings, not the notes alone, and by the musicians themselves). Finale can also (with less accuracy) capture live music from the microphone or direct line, but only one instrument at a time. I don't know how well it handles multi-toned instruments in this mode.
The free MuseScore also does midi input, but I haven't used it that way before.", "timestamp": "1398902522"}, {"author": "Bill", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/657766753032?comment_id=657798060292", "anchor": "fb-657798060292", "service": "fb", "text": "Your notation for the syncopated rhythm is accurate. An alternate, but less elegant, notation that more transparently indicates both the beats in the measure and the syncopation would be eighth, sixteenth, 2 sixteenths tied, sixteenth, eighth, with joined beams for each half and the tie joining the the last note in the first group and the first note of the second group.
Notating your other tunes may present similar challenges; what's the beat to which the dancers step, what's the rhythm of the tune against that beat, and what's the most effective way to indicate both the beat and the rhythm to the musician reading your score who doesn't have access to an audio recording.", "timestamp": "1398906645"}, {"author": "Yaron", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/657766753032?comment_id=657798713982", "anchor": "fb-657798713982", "service": "fb", "text": "Ruthan, I realize that this is often a convention, but if a particular tune would be clearer to read otherwise, it might be a good reason to break the convention... Incidentally, looking at the Portland books and NEFR, the reels are generally annotated in Cut time, with 4 1/4 notes per measure.", "timestamp": "1398907071"}, {"author": "Yaron", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/657766753032?comment_id=657798953502", "anchor": "fb-657798953502", "service": "fb", "text": "Sheet music can get people to a point where they're playing tunes, or a tune, faster. And over time, as they become more familiar with a particular repertoire, they may leave the sheet music behind.
I know that when I'm playing with others and I don't know a tune, it helps me to have sheet music in which to follow along. Once I've sort of gotten the hang of the tune, I'd play more freely. But I might still keep an eye on the sheet for reference.
If I'm wanting to learn a particular tune on short order - or at least, familiarize myself with it so I can play along - in the context of contra dance music, sheet music is generally more readily available than sound files (Portland books/NEFR, thesession.org...). To some (lesser) extent, the same is true of international folk dance music (Pinewoods book, John Chambers's Tune Finder...). Much less true of, say, ethnic Balkan music that is not a part of the int'l folk dance repertoire - e.g., when I'm looking into Greek tunes, it's often YouTube research.
We did deal with some of these issues in my Greek band. In its early days, I would spin out sheet music, to get the others up and playing. But we did have an issue with playing that was somewhat flat and mechanical. So, at a certain point, the \"other leader\" in the band decreed that we no longer play from sheet music. There have since been some personnel shifts in the band; the current group is, on balance, actually very into learning tunes by ear (though we might individually jot down some reminders); one member - a consummate musician - generally picks a recording and transcribes it in detail, every ornament, every hiccup, in order to follow the style.", "timestamp": "1398907281"}, {"author": "Boris", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/657766753032?comment_id=657812181992", "anchor": "fb-657812181992", "service": "fb", "text": "http://www.hummingbirdnotation.com/ :3", "timestamp": "1398915707"}, {"author": "Ruthan", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/657766753032?comment_id=657830435412", "anchor": "fb-657830435412", "service": "fb", "text": "It just occurred to me to wonder whether this notation seemed confusing because I was primed for dotted notes by your post title :p", "timestamp": "1398949110"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/657766753032?comment_id=657835011242", "anchor": "fb-657835011242", "service": "fb", "text": "@Yaron, Ruthan: I've converted it from 2/4 to 2/2 (cut time) and tied the long notes in the middle of each measure.", "timestamp": "1398953369"}, {"author": "Ruthan", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/657766753032?comment_id=657835160942", "anchor": "fb-657835160942", "service": "fb", "text": "Boris, I am skeptical about these claims.", "timestamp": "1398953488"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/103013777355236494008", "anchor": "gp-1398953490033", "service": "gp", "text": "@Lucas\n\u00a0Converted to 2/2 (cut time).", "timestamp": 1398953490}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/657766753032?comment_id=657835420422", "anchor": "fb-657835420422", "service": "fb", "text": "@Ruthan, Boris: The shapes aspect of hummingbird is similar to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shape_note", "timestamp": "1398953673"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/657766753032?comment_id=657835630002", "anchor": "fb-657835630002", "service": "fb", "text": "@Ruthan: \"I'd be happy to take a crack at the other two, but would find it a lot easier to do longhand.\"
If you have some time that would be wonderful! Even a rhythm-only transcription would be really helpful (I can figure out the pitches ok).", "timestamp": "1398953814"}, {"author": "Holley", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/657766753032?comment_id=657836807642", "anchor": "fb-657836807642", "service": "fb", "text": "that is very difficult to read the rhythms. That is not how it would be notated.", "timestamp": "1398954447"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/657766753032?comment_id=657836917422", "anchor": "fb-657836917422", "service": "fb", "text": "@Holley: if you click through to the post I've rewritten the notation in response to suggestions here: http://www.jefftk.com/p/written-music-corriente", "timestamp": "1398954508"}, {"author": "Holley", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/657766753032?comment_id=657837082092", "anchor": "fb-657837082092", "service": "fb", "text": "yes, the second one makes much more sense", "timestamp": "1398954574"}, {"author": "Ruthan", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/657766753032?comment_id=657837092072", "anchor": "fb-657837092072", "service": "fb", "text": "agreed!", "timestamp": "1398954587"}, {"author": "Ruthan", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/657766753032?comment_id=657837231792", "anchor": "fb-657837231792", "service": "fb", "text": "Jeff, I will take a crack at them.", "timestamp": "1398954627"}, {"author": "Lex", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/111102660583646544610", "anchor": "gp-1398979153447", "service": "gp", "text": "I agree about how learning from written music can make you play very bland; the Atlanta Open Band has been working on playing without sheet music lately.\n
\n
\nThe written notation works really really well, though, once you get used to it. It's similar to reading an article versus listening to a speech. Sure, if you are doing it for enjoyment, listening can be better. If you are trying to absorb the information content, though, then the written form is much better.\n
\n
\nFor contra music, and other catchy, regular tunes, you might want to look into \"abc\" notation. The AOB keeps all of its files in a library of abc files, and we print them out to sheet music on demand. Which we then struggle to not pay too much attention to.", "timestamp": 1398979153}, {"author": "Lex", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/111102660583646544610", "anchor": "gp-1398979735532", "service": "gp", "text": "Another little thing you might consider is to pick a chord and write the name of it over each measure. Harmony players will thank you.", "timestamp": 1398979735}, {"author": "Ruthan", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/657766753032?comment_id=657955100582", "anchor": "fb-657955100582", "service": "fb", "text": "I thought about this a bunch last night. I can think of two reasons for music to have barlines: one, it implies a certain metrical accent; two, it makes the music easier to read. WRT two, I prefer tied sixteenths or eighths) because it's clearer to have a notehead corresponding to the beat that's the \"middle\" of the bar (or, wrt one, that corresponds to a metrical accent.)", "timestamp": "1399044965"}, {"author": "Ruthan", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/657766753032?comment_id=658124371362", "anchor": "fb-658124371362", "service": "fb", "text": "Jeff I am working on this presently. It perhaps does not come as a surprise that the version recorded at speed is not exactly the same as the slow one. Is the slow one canonical, or the one at speed?", "timestamp": "1399166721"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/657766753032?comment_id=658139176692", "anchor": "fb-658139176692", "service": "fb", "text": "Ruthan: thanks so much! I think the one at speed is right.", "timestamp": "1399176397"}]}