{"items": [{"author": "Dan", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/196341517113694?comment_id=196358683778644", "anchor": "fb-196358683778644", "service": "fb", "text": "I think somewhere in between Ayn Rand and a life dedicated to helping others there exists a happy medium.", "timestamp": "1322233809"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/196341517113694?comment_id=196368107111035", "anchor": "fb-196368107111035", "service": "fb", "text": "@Dan: granted. People tend to be much closer to the rand end of the spectrum, though. Total annual giving [1] averages $214 for incomes under $100K, and $725 for incomes $100K-$200K. That's less than 1%.
[1] From http://www.philanthropy.iupui.edu/.../giving%20focused... counting only giving to heath, education, basic needs, and other. Religious giving is the biggest category excluded.", "timestamp": "1322235260"}, {"author": "Dan", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/196341517113694?comment_id=196369433777569", "anchor": "fb-196369433777569", "service": "fb", "text": "Oog. Felt that. You and I should probably talk about ways I can do a little better.", "timestamp": "1322235430"}, {"author": "Mac", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/196341517113694?comment_id=196373940443785", "anchor": "fb-196373940443785", "service": "fb", "text": "Then there's the whole thing about efficient use by the receiving cause. And another thought: I once made cookies for a local philanthropy. When I had bagged them up in retail portions, they would bring in ~$10. Far better I just stay a work a little longer, and donate cash. Gotta look at the whole cycle, from your life to the aided party.", "timestamp": "1322236087"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/196341517113694?comment_id=196374520443727", "anchor": "fb-196374520443727", "service": "fb", "text": "@Dan: The easiest change might be where you give to more than how much you give. Charities vary widely in terms of effectiveness (100x or more), and there are groups that look at how effective charity programs are. See http://www.givinggladly.com/2011/11/most-for-your-money.html or http://givewell.org
As for giving more money, I find that setting aside donation money first, as if it were a paycheque deduction, helps. Pick a percentage and treat your takehome pay as being smaller by that amount. A smaller percentage is better than nothing (perfect is the enemy of good) and it's better to have something achievable that you can work up from than an amount that will fell like too much of a burden for you to continue.", "timestamp": "1322236169"}, {"author": "Adrian", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/196341517113694?comment_id=196383060442873", "anchor": "fb-196383060442873", "service": "fb", "text": "Zell Kravinsky? Read up more, Jeff. Philanthropy comes in lots of forms. Also, check out Buddhist stories on gifts of the body--just for a different perspective on ownership!", "timestamp": "1322237441"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/196341517113694?comment_id=196408370440342", "anchor": "fb-196408370440342", "service": "fb", "text": "@Marianna: I don't think kidney donation compares well with trying to earn more to give away. Say kravinsky is right and there's a 1:4000 chance of dying, the recipient would have a definitely die otherwise, and also that your lifetime giving capacity if you go into finance is $5M. One 4000th of $5M is $1250. You can save an expected life for around $500 via village reach, according to givewell. So giving up your kidney is not a good choice. Once you're older and your future giving capacity has declined dramatically it might make sense, though.
This also doesn't take into account that the expected number of additional years of life a kidney recipient has are probably under a decade (organ rejection, etc).
Do you have a buddhist story you think I should read? I'm not religious, though, so I may find it less moving than you do.", "timestamp": "1322240959"}, {"author": "Allison", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/103741579182942078941", "anchor": "gp-1322248141007", "service": "gp", "text": "I like the low percentage. As people start to earn more, they also tend to have more responsibilities, like tending to the basic needs of children, managing parents in failing health, dealing with their own increasing medical expenses as they get older, and worrying about retirement. An individual's personal budget will need to change as their life changes. However, the size of their budget will probably need to increase at a slower rate than their income.\n
\n
\nThere are other lots of other variants than a simple percentage: give a minimum of 10% [base charity percentage]; once the personal budget reaches $40,000 [base budget], give 50% [additional charity percentage] of (income - $40,000). I bet everyone could play with the base charity percentage, the base budget, and the additional charity percentage and get something that works for them as a lifelong giving rule.", "timestamp": 1322248141}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/103013777355236494008", "anchor": "gp-1322248300143", "service": "gp", "text": "@allison\n \"I bet everyone could play with the base charity percentage, the base budget, and the additional charity percentage and get something that works for them as a lifelong giving rule.\"\n
\n
\nI'm not so sure: it requires predicting now how much you'll feel able to give.", "timestamp": 1322248300}, {"author": "Allison", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/103741579182942078941", "anchor": "gp-1322250109161", "service": "gp", "text": "The simple percentage requires predicting as well. The system I suggested is more complicated, and personally, I'd be more inclined to commit to a simple percentage, but it's worth thinking about some kind of tiered giving system.", "timestamp": 1322250109}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/103013777355236494008", "anchor": "gp-1322258343526", "service": "gp", "text": "@allison\n I'm not trying to say the simple percentage is better. It's possible neither works well.", "timestamp": 1322258343}, {"author": "Phillip", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/196341517113694?comment_id=196533080427871", "anchor": "fb-196533080427871", "service": "fb", "text": "I once asked someone his understanding of savings. He was part of a large family that lived on a relatively small income. His first comment was \"first you set aside 10% for the church.\" I took that as a wake up call. I would note that excluding religious giving is just silly. The largest private provider of social services in MA the Archdioceses of Boston. This is a long way of saying I agree with the idea of paying charity first. My check goes into a bank account. From there is an automatic transfer is made to my charitable giving account (thus i have a budgeted and enforced giving plan. I would observe that one should also take this approach to savings. If you do that part right you will provide for your retirement, and probably have asurplus to give away.", "timestamp": "1322258744"}, {"author": "Phillip", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/196341517113694?comment_id=196534823761030", "anchor": "fb-196534823761030", "service": "fb", "text": "This is part of a letter to the editor I am sending to my local (Arlington) newspaper abut a smaller way to give: The Christmas season will soon be upon us, and with it the bell ringers of the Salvation Army. While not the leading recipient of my giving, beginning a few years ago I made a simple commitment: every time I pass a bell ringer I reach in my pockets, find all of the change and drop it in the bucket. Often, when I go to Johnnie's I will reach in my pocket and drop in my coins, and then on the way out, I will again have change, so I drop that in the bucket as well. Needless to say, I have never miss the money, but let's do the math: 30 donations an hour of 50 cents multiplied by 12 hours by 30 days is $5,400; with at least five locations in Arlington that would be $27,000. Not bad given that no one would feel poorer, and those helped, the volunteers providing the help, and the community at large will be richer for it.", "timestamp": "1322259007"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/196341517113694?comment_id=196562810424898", "anchor": "fb-196562810424898", "service": "fb", "text": "@Phillip:
\"My check goes into a bank account. From there is an automatic transfer is made to my charitable giving account\"
That's a good idea.
\"I would note that excluding religious giving is just silly. The largest private provider of social services in MA the Archdioceses of Boston.\"
The reason for excluding religious giving is that a large fraction of the money goes to pay for holding religious services and running the church. Some of the money does go to helping people, but as a percentage of overall religious giving it's low. At my quaker meeting, for example, it's less than 5%. (Not faulting them; that's not their primary goal.) Most of the money goes to rent and childcare.", "timestamp": "1322263550"}, {"author": "George", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/196341517113694?comment_id=196587947089051", "anchor": "fb-196587947089051", "service": "fb", "text": "The Salvation Army is not my first choice to give money to because they discourage homosexuals from marrying or having sex.", "timestamp": "1322267952"}, {"author": "George", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/196341517113694?comment_id=196589230422256", "anchor": "fb-196589230422256", "service": "fb", "text": "Also I think \"Alan\" (what an amusing pseudonym) is a very different type of utilitarian than you, Jeff. In some ways I find his views less crazy than yours and in some ways more crazy. But I would rather have a billion crazy utilitarians than a single disciple of Ayn Rand.", "timestamp": "1322268167"}, {"author": "Adrian", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/196341517113694?comment_id=196628017085044", "anchor": "fb-196628017085044", "service": "fb", "text": "@ George: How successful is the Salvation Army at discouraging those homosexuals? Much of the queer ladies I know say that the Salvation Army's general unsexiness is their major deterrent from engaging in homosexual sexual activities. :P @ Jeff: \"King Chandraprabha Gives His Head\" is probably the most counfounding in its uselessness of a gift, which is, of course, the point. The philosophy here is what would interest you, I believe. Religion can introduce you to some fun ones, whatever your state of belief, pratice, or non-belief or non-practice. Enjoy the wacky interlude from your thoughts! Also... self-discipline and a lot of perspective goes a long way. Closeness with those who you want to benefit can provide that--and an increase in utility, or at least awareness, of where your money is going to. How many strings would you like attached to your funding?", "timestamp": "1322273518"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/196341517113694?comment_id=196629547084891", "anchor": "fb-196629547084891", "service": "fb", "text": "@Marianna, @Phillip: on the salvation army and homosexuality, there are some details here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Salvation_Army...
@Mariana: \"Closeness with those who you want to benefit can provide that--and an increase in utility, or at least awareness, of where your money is going to. How many strings would you like attached to your funding?\"
I want to give my money in whatever way does the most good. Attaching strings to funding you give to an existing organization is usually not as useful as finding an organization that has similar goals to you. I would prefer to be giving unrestricted funding to someone doing good work, perhaps village reach.", "timestamp": "1322273799"}, {"author": "George", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/196341517113694?comment_id=196633423751170", "anchor": "fb-196633423751170", "service": "fb", "text": "Mariana, it isn't relevant to me how effective the Salvation Army is at pushing their views when other perfectly good charities exist without those positions I find objectionable; that is why I said it is \"not my first choice to give money to.\"", "timestamp": "1322274533"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/196341517113694?comment_id=196653760415803", "anchor": "fb-196653760415803", "service": "fb", "text": "@Marianna: I just read about the king chandraprabha [1]the story you suggested . Unfortunately, I don't think I got very much out of it. I think I would need to read a lot more about the culture and belief system to understand what his choices meant.
[1] http://www.rmanyc.org/.../docum.../oumt_explore_teaching.pdf (p11-12)", "timestamp": "1322278111"}, {"author": "Adrian", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/196341517113694?comment_id=196697800411399", "anchor": "fb-196697800411399", "service": "fb", "text": "Whew, George. I'm kiddin around. I'm a homosexual myself, although queer/bi-dyke/pansexual are probably slightly better words for me in particular. Jeff, the story upholds generosity above all material attachments--even when the material world, from a utilitarian perspective, may benefit from a different approach. I'm not advocating gifts of the body as an approach that would be satisfactory for most Western philanthropists. I am, however, suggesting that more self-discipline, perspective, and non-attachment to material items may be useful tools for aspiring young philanthropists wishing to ward off temptations of living the lavish lifestyles of their coworkers. And back to where to put your money--this is an excellent question, one with practical, hands-on applications. Pay the homophobes, and they may take your money to propagate more homophobia. Gain enough financial influence, and you decide which movements live or die--and exactly how they should do so. \"The Revolution Will Not Be Funded\" has much to say on this topic, as do other books and articles. But say our young philanthropist becomes filthy rich, and manages to save vast quantities for those who could have one in a zillion chances of climbing to the top-earning slot. How does she approach this moral/ethical dilemma? Where does ze want to throw his money, and how? How does she come to these conclusions? Probably by going and trying stuff out.", "timestamp": "1322288211"}, {"author": "Adrian", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/196341517113694?comment_id=196699243744588", "anchor": "fb-196699243744588", "service": "fb", "text": "And living on $10K is doable, but quite difficult.", "timestamp": "1322288569"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/196341517113694?comment_id=196889893725523", "anchor": "fb-196889893725523", "service": "fb", "text": "@Marianna: \"living on $10K is doable, but quite difficult.\"
Julia and I currently live on about $9K each (not counting taxes or health insurance). Going below that would feel difficult, spending more would be nice, but we're pretty happy where we are. We have enough for good food, a nice apartment we share with another couple, contra dances, music, eating out occasionally, etc. This is a weird thing about money: whatever level you're spending at feels about right, living on less sounds very unpleasant, and some more would be great. This is what I was worried about in the post: my sense of what is reasonable to live on is likely to drift up over time.
\"say our young philanthropist becomes filthy rich, and manages to save vast quantities for those who could have one in a zillion chances of climbing to the top-earning slot. How does she approach this moral/ethical dilemma?\"
I think I don't understand you here. What is the dilemma?
\"Probably by going and trying stuff out.\"
If I understand you here, charities that do monitoring and evaluation (research to test how effective they are being) are doing this.", "timestamp": "1322321315"}, {"author": "opted out", "source_link": "#", "anchor": "unknown", "service": "unknown", "text": "this user has requested that their comments not be shown here", "timestamp": "1322324930"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/196341517113694?comment_id=196925103722002", "anchor": "fb-196925103722002", "service": "fb", "text": "@Justin: Depends on what your premises are. If you value not only your happiness but also the happiness of others, then if you can avert substantial suffering at minimal cost to yourself you should do so. As relatively rich people, globally speaking, this applies to us.", "timestamp": "1322326459"}, {"author": "opted out", "source_link": "#", "anchor": "unknown", "service": "unknown", "text": "this user has requested that their comments not be shown here", "timestamp": "1322327040"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/196341517113694?comment_id=197250470356132", "anchor": "fb-197250470356132", "service": "fb", "text": "@Justin: what does \"strictly non-personal\" mean here?", "timestamp": "1322374178"}]}