{"items": [{"author": "Todd", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/112947709146257842066", "anchor": "gp-1343217756037", "service": "gp", "text": "I don't think that thought experiment gets at anything to do with quantum mechanics. It's just testing how you think about death. Maybe that's your point?", "timestamp": 1343217756}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/103013777355236494008", "anchor": "gp-1343220084103", "service": "gp", "text": "@Todd\n\u00a0If worlds split then you know going into the suicide lottery that you're going to experience winning. \u00a0If the world doesn't split then you don't.", "timestamp": 1343220084}, {"author": "George", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/127261877416435?comment_id=127354757407147", "anchor": "fb-127354757407147", "service": "fb", "text": "No. Also, the many worlds interpretation is silly.", "timestamp": "1343236341"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/127261877416435?comment_id=127388180737138", "anchor": "fb-127388180737138", "service": "fb", "text": "@George: silly as in wrong?", "timestamp": "1343244065"}, {"author": "Todd", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/112947709146257842066", "anchor": "gp-1343247537772", "service": "gp", "text": "Your variant undermines that approach. Take out the death bit and it demonstrates that I can experience losing the bet. Leave it in, and I can \"experience\" death.", "timestamp": 1343247537}, {"author": "George", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/127261877416435?comment_id=127404277402195", "anchor": "fb-127404277402195", "service": "fb", "text": "Yes, I think it is wrong. But people who interpret QM with many worlds predict experiments the same way as people who do not since otherwise it would actually be a different theory of QM instead of a different interpretation.", "timestamp": "1343247796"}, {"author": "George", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/127261877416435?comment_id=127404634068826", "anchor": "fb-127404634068826", "service": "fb", "text": "Also I wouldn't read things about QM written by Eliezer Yudkowsky. Not saying that you have, but I would avoid it.", "timestamp": "1343247882"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/103013777355236494008", "anchor": "gp-1343265193269", "service": "gp", "text": "@Todd\n\u00a0It doesn't undermine it entirely. \u00a0MWI would imply that you will both win and lose, while otherwise you just either win or lose. \u00a0The key question is whether it is preferable to experience losing or not experience anything.", "timestamp": 1343265193}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/127261877416435?comment_id=127479264061363", "anchor": "fb-127479264061363", "service": "fb", "text": "@George: while I haven't read his QM writings, the posters on the stackechange physics site, including Scott Aaronson, seem to think it's decent: http://physics.stackexchange.com/.../what-errors-would...", "timestamp": "1343267117"}, {"author": "George", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/127261877416435?comment_id=127482790727677", "anchor": "fb-127482790727677", "service": "fb", "text": "Scott Aaronson criticizes some of the things I would criticize. Since I hate the many-worlds interpretation more than Scott does and since the flaws in Yudkowsky's presentation bend him towards the interpretation I hate, I view the flaws as more severe. What upsets me the most about Yudkowsky's writings on QM (more than the many-worlds bull shit) is a vague feeling that he actually has no clue what he is talking about and has learned to regurgitate the right excerpts of other things and has somehow tricked himself into thinking he has mastered QM. As someone who only knows undergraduate level QM I obviously could learn a lot more about QM as well.", "timestamp": "1343268096"}, {"author": "George", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/127261877416435?comment_id=127483167394306", "anchor": "fb-127483167394306", "service": "fb", "text": "Here is a summary of my position on his writing: if you aren't interested in interpretations of QM or actually learning QM, it is fine. But if you want to think about QM interpretations, his stuff has a lot of subtle and pernicious flaws that require a lot of expertise to identify and a more balanced presentation by someone who actually knows QM would serve you better.", "timestamp": "1343268210"}, {"author": "Todd", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/112947709146257842066", "anchor": "gp-1343271864149", "service": "gp", "text": "\"The key question is whether it is preferable to experience losing or not experience anything.\"\n
\n
\nThis is a question about death, not about QM. You can just as easily explore the relevant intuition by asking: \"Would you rather lose $N, or be killed instantly and painlessly?\" I also, personally, doubt that anyone would choose the latter, so I don't know that it's a very interesting or useful question.", "timestamp": 1343271864}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/103013777355236494008", "anchor": "gp-1343304139345", "service": "gp", "text": "@Todd\n\u00a0People who accept quantum suicide aren't doing it because they would rather be killed instantly and painlessly than lose $N, it's because they think worlds in which they don't exist don't matter. I think they're wrong not to count those worlds, and think instead that they should be answering the\u00a0\"Would you rather lose $N, or be killed instantly and painlessly?\" question.", "timestamp": 1343304139}, {"author": "Todd", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/112947709146257842066", "anchor": "gp-1343304394449", "service": "gp", "text": "That philosophical stance also strikes me as independent of QM. Going both back and forward in time, you get to a point where, for any given individual, there are no worlds that contain them. If worlds that don't contain me don't matter, then that means the world didn't matter before I was born/won't matter after I die under a one-world interpretation. Which is extremely sophist.", "timestamp": 1343304394}]}