{"items": [{"author": "Jenny", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/143040009115686?comment_id=143075592445461", "anchor": "fb-143075592445461", "service": "fb", "text": "I also do not want to publicly go along with belief in a God who punishes liars -- which is what swearing, especially on the Bible, implies. I do, however, believe experientially that lies can be useful in the short term and come back to bite in the longer term. To your other point, you're right, few of us are brave enough for radical honesty. In general I find that real live Quakers tend to avoid a person or situation or question rather than lie outright. Which is still a form of dishonesty, one might argue.", "timestamp": "1312645113"}, {"author": "Danni", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/143040009115686?comment_id=143076885778665", "anchor": "fb-143076885778665", "service": "fb", "text": "I'm not sure I think the issue is about whether we swear or affirm or not. It sounds to me like the issue is, in the author's words (is this your article?): \"People no longer trust arbitrary statements by most quakers more than those same statements made by non-quakers. This is because quakers have, over time, become less serious about telling the truth.\"", "timestamp": "1312645318"}, {"author": "Michael", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/143040009115686?comment_id=143078569111830", "anchor": "fb-143078569111830", "service": "fb", "text": "I still say \"I affirm\" or \"I so affirm\" when asked to swear in court or in city hall. I do it partly because it's what my religious education required, and partly to support the right of other people to make that choice.", "timestamp": "1312645599"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/143040009115686?comment_id=143212402431780", "anchor": "fb-143212402431780", "service": "fb", "text": "@Oliver: this is something I wrote, yes", "timestamp": "1312668111"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/143040009115686?comment_id=143212689098418", "anchor": "fb-143212689098418", "service": "fb", "text": "@Jenny: avoiding a question rather than lying outright I think might be not telling the \"whole truth\"", "timestamp": "1312668151"}, {"author": "Danni", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/143040009115686?comment_id=143213929098294", "anchor": "fb-143213929098294", "service": "fb", "text": "Very cool. So yeah, I think you really hit the nail on the head with your observation that Quakers have become less serious about telling the truth. I wonder what we would need to do to go back to being a society of truth-tellers.
Is it okay to post this elsewhere for discussion purposes? I'm really interested to hear what other Friends have to say about it.", "timestamp": "1312668363"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/143040009115686?comment_id=143219292431091", "anchor": "fb-143219292431091", "service": "fb", "text": "@Oliver: further distribution is fine
There is another angle I'm thinking now but didn't get into the in post: in the bible jesus does say literally not to swear, right before saying to let your 'yes' be yes and your 'no' be no. I don't usually see this given as the reason quakers affirm, but it might be in there. (Other christian groups tend to not pay so much attention to that passage, so there might be good arguments why it shouldn't be interpreted literally.)", "timestamp": "1312669320"}, {"author": "Tom", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/143040009115686?comment_id=143299035756450", "anchor": "fb-143299035756450", "service": "fb", "text": "I actually understand that the \"original\" argument for not swearing was in fact \"biblical.\" \"Swear not at all.\" The command was that we are not to swear on the temple, or on other things, such as the Bible. I think this call to not rely on any other \"object\" or person but rather to let your yea be yea and your nay be nay was the major reason for not swearing.
The statement that not swearing was stating that you tell the truth all the time would seem to be a somewhat secondary or later \"rationalization.\" It is like so many other things that Friends are becoming more acculturated and it is more a reminder to the individual as to what should be expected in their behavior as a statement \"to the public.\" Integrity is a witness which I strongly trust/hope Friends will maintain.", "timestamp": "1312684187"}]}