{"items": [{"author": "Alex", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/100936518160252317727", "anchor": "gp-1362760184317", "service": "gp", "text": "Of course, there are plenty of quicker ways to get people into their seats (board window-seats first, let people check a bag, have an attendant helping short / older folks get their bag overhead so it takes less time), so it's possible that in an ideally-run system, that would no longer be the bottleneck. But it's true that flow control benefits all sorts of things.", "timestamp": 1362760184}, {"author": "Mac", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/258046880998432?comment_id=258057607664026", "anchor": "fb-258057607664026", "service": "fb", "text": "You have to look at it from the industry's POV. The employee starts the task of ticket scanning, and does it uninterrupted. That is usually the best use of employee time, and works out to the lowest cost. Getting crowds going is a major source of delay. Treating passengers as cattle is uncomfortable, but quicker, which ultimately might be best for the passengers.", "timestamp": "1362760280"}, {"author": "David", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/258046880998432?comment_id=258077827662004", "anchor": "fb-258077827662004", "service": "fb", "text": "Also, not everybody has the same inputs. For me, it would be more like:
terminal: 5
line for ticket scan: 2
jetway: 7
aisle: 6
seat: 4
I.e., I don't really care about physical comfort. I find waiting in line for the ticket scan boring. While waiting in the terminal, I can read or watch the airplanes and crews. While waiting in the jetway, I can look at how the jetway was constructed and how it functions (I think sliding floorboards are really cool). While waiting in the aisle, I can look at all the cool features the plane has in the cabin. In the seat, I can read, watch the other passengers, or maybe look out the small window.", "timestamp": "1362763401"}, {"author": "David", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/258046880998432?comment_id=258078550995265", "anchor": "fb-258078550995265", "service": "fb", "text": "Of course, my inputs might be sufficiently unusual to be a case similar to http://xkcd.com/1172/", "timestamp": "1362763559"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/258046880998432?comment_id=258093830993737", "anchor": "fb-258093830993737", "service": "fb", "text": "@Walker: \"Getting crowds going is a major source of delay.\"
Actually? People always seem very eager to board planes.
\"Treating passengers as cattle is uncomfortable, but quicker\"
That's what I'm disputing. I think it's the same speed because the actual limiting factor is getting on the plane and settling in.", "timestamp": "1362766478"}, {"author": "Todd", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/112947709146257842066", "anchor": "gp-1362768142125", "service": "gp", "text": "My inputs are more like...\n
\n
\nWaiting in the terminal (3)\n
\nWaiting in line to have your ticket scanned (1)\n
\nWaiting in the jetway to board the plane (1)\n
\nWaiting in the plane's aisle to get to your seat (1)\n
\nWaiting in your seat for the plane to leave (2)\n
\n
\nI \nlove\n air travel.", "timestamp": 1362768142}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/103013777355236494008", "anchor": "gp-1362768484335", "service": "gp", "text": "@Todd\n\u00a0Is sitting in the terminal with a laptop and internet really that unpleasant?", "timestamp": 1362768484}, {"author": "Todd", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/112947709146257842066", "anchor": "gp-1362769356820", "service": "gp", "text": "Not sure where you're getting internet in the terminal. Most airports don't have that, or it's not free (and whenever it isn't free, it costs far too much to be worth purchasing). Many airports also don't have convenient power outlets, so using my laptop is impractical at best anyway.\n
\n
\nThat's not really what makes it unpleasant, though. I have enough portable devices (phone, handheld games, books) to pass the time. What makes it unpleasant is:\n
\n1. I'm usually in a bad mood anyway, having just dealt with all the crap involved in getting there (security etc.).\n
\n2. It's almost inevitably at a time of day I'd rather be sleeping.\n
\n3. There's tons of noise, light, people, etc.- hard to concentrate effectively on anything, assuming I'm not too tired anyway (which I usually am).\n
\n4. I may have something to occupy my time, but I'm still fundamentally waiting, which is intrinsically boring, even if I have options to alleviate that.\n
\n5. It's often very cramped b/c of all the luggage.\n
\n6. I dread the upcoming flight.\n
\n
\nFundamentally, the issue is that all the things that I can do to occupy my time in the terminal, are things I can do all the time anyway under much more favorable conditions. So they don't move the needle that much. That, and I'm always tired and cranky.\n
\n
\nWaiting in the terminal is the least unpleasant part of air travel, for sure, but it's still nothing I'd ever \nwant\n to do, which an 8 would certainly suggest.", "timestamp": 1362769356}, {"author": "Chris", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/117346402173047680184", "anchor": "gp-1362771920640", "service": "gp", "text": "I would certainly not put anything above 5 now that I've read Todd's post.\u00a0 Although, actually, I think I'll rewrite my answers to be on a scale from -5 to 5, so nothing will be above a 0.\n
\n
\nWaiting in the terminal: 0ish\n
\nWaiting in line in the terminal: -3\n
\nWaiting in line in the jetway: -5\n
\nWaiting in line in the aisle: -4\n
\nWaiting in my seat: -2\n
\nWaiting during the takeoff (and landing): 1\n
\nWaiting during the flight: -1\n
\n
\nI think my feelings are primarily about freedom of movement and my extreme dislike of standing still.\u00a0 I like sitting, walking, lying down, but I hate standing in one place.\n
\n
\nI think waiting in the terminal is having to have all of my stuff with me and be nervous about being there when it's time to board (negative) balanced with being in a public place and interact with new people (positive).\n
\n
\nBut, to the actual issue, I do think more complicated boarding rules would have a much better effect than what you're proposing.\u00a0 I'd never thought about having people in the window seats board first.\u00a0 I'm a big fan.\n
\n
\nAlso, the goal of the airline is to get everyone loaded as efficiently as possible.\u00a0 Keeping the jetway line short shouldn't cause problems, but as there's always variance, letting the jetway/aisle line get down to 0 will delay things, so the payoff might not be worth the risk.\n
\n
\nFinally, I think it's important to think about the fact that people are more efficient when they have fewer context switches, so keeping the person scanning people's boarding passes continually active is more efficient than having them start and stop a bunch.", "timestamp": 1362771920}, {"author": "BDan", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/258046880998432?comment_id=258117830991337", "anchor": "fb-258117830991337", "service": "fb", "text": "Mind you, getting onto the plane would be faster if they ordered people differently -- it would be better if all the window seats boarded first, back to front, followed by middles, followed by aisles. But that would split up people traveling together.", "timestamp": "1362772728"}, {"author": "Topher", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/258046880998432?comment_id=258118047657982", "anchor": "fb-258118047657982", "service": "fb", "text": "It used to be simple: wait as long as possible to board. Now, because of AirlineIdiocy, every flight runs out of overhead bagged space, forcing you to contest for bin space and board as early as you can.", "timestamp": "1362772797"}, {"author": "Topher", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/258046880998432?comment_id=258118067657980", "anchor": "fb-258118067657980", "service": "fb", "text": "Another reason to pack light.", "timestamp": "1362772807"}, {"author": "David", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/258046880998432?comment_id=258118794324574", "anchor": "fb-258118794324574", "service": "fb", "text": "Why would waiting as long as possible to board have ever been a good strategy? Wouldn't that just delay departure?", "timestamp": "1362773001"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/103013777355236494008", "anchor": "gp-1362773537764", "service": "gp", "text": "@Chris\n\u00a0\"Keeping the jetway line short shouldn't cause problems, but as there's always variance, letting the jetway/aisle line get down to 0 will delay things, so the payoff might not be worth the risk.\"\n
\n
\nSure. \u00a0Keeping it around 10 people is probably safe, but the real safe number seems like something you could find experimentally. \u00a0My impression is that it's often 40+.\n
\n
\n\"people are more efficient when they have fewer context switches, so keeping the person scanning people's boarding passes continually active is more efficient than having them start and stop a bunch.\"\n
\n
\nI think even an inefficient pass-scanner is still much faster than someone getting into their seat and stowing their bags.\n
\n
\nThe airline economics would change if the pass scanner could get everyone into the jetway, lock the door, and then go do something else. \u00a0But then you couldn't let on people who show up last minute.", "timestamp": 1362773537}, {"author": "Matthew", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/258046880998432?comment_id=258121530990967", "anchor": "fb-258121530990967", "service": "fb", "text": "David This wasn't the boarding strategy so much as what individuals optimized for. Especially when combined with really nice premium lounges to wait in before boarding.", "timestamp": "1362773704"}, {"author": "David", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/258046880998432?comment_id=258122090990911", "anchor": "fb-258122090990911", "service": "fb", "text": "Ah, that makes more sense. (I still think airplanes are much more interesting than lounges though.)", "timestamp": "1362773860"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/103013777355236494008", "anchor": "gp-1362773867637", "service": "gp", "text": "@Todd\n\u00a0\"Not sure where you're getting internet in the terminal. Most airports don't have that, or it's not free (and whenever it isn't free, it costs far too much to be worth purchasing).\"\n
\n
\nIt used to be that airport wifi was basically never free, but the last few times I've gone anywhere there's been a \"look at a few ads and then it's free\" option. \u00a0There's also tethering.\n
\n
\n\"Many airports also don't have convenient power outlets, so using my laptop is impractical at best anyway.\"\n
\n
\nReally? \u00a0I pretty much always search until I find one in the terminal.\n
\n
\nI keep trying to remember to bring a power strip with me so that if the most convenient outlets are occupied I can share.\n
\n
\n\"it's still nothing I'd ever want to do, which an 8 would certainly suggest.\"\n
\n
\nI think this may come down to me having a high happiness setpoint.", "timestamp": 1362773867}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/258046880998432?comment_id=258122684324185", "anchor": "fb-258122684324185", "service": "fb", "text": "@David: \"airplanes are much more interesting than lounges\"
You're still going to have long enough on the plane to satiate your interest even if you board ten minutes later. Whereas the lounge is less about interest than comfort, which doesn't satiate as well.", "timestamp": "1362773983"}, {"author": "Matthew", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/258046880998432?comment_id=258123520990768", "anchor": "fb-258123520990768", "service": "fb", "text": "If you have a window seat I actually find looking out the window at all the other planes and airfield activity more interesting than any of the other states involved. But this is a digression...", "timestamp": "1362774109"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/258046880998432?comment_id=258124154324038", "anchor": "fb-258124154324038", "service": "fb", "text": "@Matthew, David: the merits of terminal-time vs airplane-time I don't have a strong feeling on; mostly I want to minimize jetway-time and aisle-time. (Though apparently David likes jetways. I wonder if anyone would mind if you hung out in the jetway and let people pass you while boarding? But it's probably not a scenario where acting strangely is a good idea. \"I'm sorry officer, I just really find jetways fascinating.\")", "timestamp": "1362774292"}, {"author": "David", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/258046880998432?comment_id=258124407657346", "anchor": "fb-258124407657346", "service": "fb", "text": "Jeff \"You're still going to have long enough on the plane to satiate your interest even if you board ten minutes later\"
Not really. The parts I find interesting are the boarding, waiting to taxi, taxiing, takeoff, initial ascent, turbulence, final descent, landing, waiting to leave, and leaving. On commercial airlines there's not much turbulence, so 10 minutes is a substantial percentage of the interesting parts.", "timestamp": "1362774355"}, {"author": "Matthew", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/258046880998432?comment_id=258125427657244", "anchor": "fb-258125427657244", "service": "fb", "text": "Back to the original post Jeff, I completely agree. I think there's an additional factor in here which is space available to queue pre-boarding-pass-scan. Pretty much every airport I've been to has ended up with lines extending out into the path of passing traffic going to other gates. Southwest seems to solve this by removing seating along the windows and replacing it with dedicated queuing space, but short of that I'm not sure what they could do to enforce people not getting in the way. Even airlines that use boarding \"zones\" and tell everybody to only line up when their number is called don't seem to have much success. This creates a problem for the gate agent where waiting until the jetway is more clear gets weighed against clogging the terminal walkways.", "timestamp": "1362774560"}, {"author": "David", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/258046880998432?comment_id=258127197657067", "anchor": "fb-258127197657067", "service": "fb", "text": "They could put up those temporary rope/webbing fences with the only opening to the waiting area at the other end from the ticket scanner.", "timestamp": "1362774864"}, {"author": "opted out", "source_link": "#", "anchor": "unknown", "service": "unknown", "text": "this user has requested that their comments not be shown here", "timestamp": "1362778904"}, {"author": "Andrew", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/258046880998432?comment_id=258273047642482", "anchor": "fb-258273047642482", "service": "fb", "text": "I agree with your proposal to limit jetway and aisle time (jetway especially), but I'd really like to see smarter boarding (and deboarding) strategies: back to front, windows first, use multiple doors. And stop with the checked-baggage disincentive!", "timestamp": "1362800532"}]}