{"items": [{"author": "Marcus", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/115811589251174483775", "anchor": "gp-1373630189067", "service": "gp", "text": "I think the biggest limitation is the first condition. \u00a0BOS-NYC is a heavily trafficked route and I'm sure Amtrak would frequently refuse to transport your car due to logistical impossibility.", "timestamp": 1373630189}, {"author": "Laura", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/619770797232?comment_id=619772738342", "anchor": "fb-619772738342", "service": "fb", "text": "Would Amtrak be checking the tickets for you? How would you sell the tickets? Could 300 frequent travelers split the cost of a rail car?", "timestamp": "1373630953"}, {"author": "Laura", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/619770797232?comment_id=619772753312", "anchor": "fb-619772753312", "service": "fb", "text": "Most importantly, WHY DOES AMTRAK COST SO MUCH MONEY", "timestamp": "1373630968"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/619770797232?comment_id=619772798222", "anchor": "fb-619772798222", "service": "fb", "text": "@Laura: you'd hire a conductor to check tickets.", "timestamp": "1373631012"}, {"author": "Laura", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/619770797232?comment_id=619772818182", "anchor": "fb-619772818182", "service": "fb", "text": "okay, so there would be a separate conductor for this one car...cool...", "timestamp": "1373631043"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/619770797232?comment_id=619772823172", "anchor": "fb-619772823172", "service": "fb", "text": "@Laura: part of why Amtrack is so expensive on the northeast corridor is that they're subsidizing less profitable routes elsewhere.", "timestamp": "1373631053"}, {"author": "Laura", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/619770797232?comment_id=619772888042", "anchor": "fb-619772888042", "service": "fb", "text": "Ah. That does make some sense, I suppose...(I've only lived in MA and NJ) What happens if none of the Amtrak passengers want to stop at, say, New Haven, but one of the private passengers does? Can that happen? Does the train stop there anyway, if no one is getting on or off? (It is rather unlikely.)", "timestamp": "1373631140"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/103013777355236494008", "anchor": "gp-1373631160659", "service": "gp", "text": "@Marcus\n\u00a0\"due to logistical impossibility\"\n
\n
\nYou mean that they're already running trains as long as possible?", "timestamp": 1373631160}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/619770797232?comment_id=619772972872", "anchor": "fb-619772972872", "service": "fb", "text": "@Laura: I think this still works even if the passengers in the private car can only get tickets for NYC-Boston.", "timestamp": "1373631218"}, {"author": "Laura", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/619770797232?comment_id=619773082652", "anchor": "fb-619773082652", "service": "fb", "text": "I think it's a great idea. I'm just curious as to the details :)", "timestamp": "1373631425"}, {"author": "Danner", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/619770797232?comment_id=619775203402", "anchor": "fb-619775203402", "service": "fb", "text": "Pay extra, make a contra car. I'd also be incredibly amused by listening to a concert on the way to NYC.", "timestamp": "1373633218"}, {"author": "Marcus", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/115811589251174483775", "anchor": "gp-1373637731383", "service": "gp", "text": "As long as possible? Probably not.\u00a0 \"Impossibility\" was an overly strong word.\u00a0 \"Non-triviality\" is more what I meant.\u00a0 My reading of the terms and conditions is that if it's going to be a headache to add your car to the train, they won't do it. Which given the congestion on corridors where this business model would work, is likely to be a big impediment to regular service.", "timestamp": 1373637731}, {"author": "Marcus", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/115811589251174483775", "anchor": "gp-1373638367681", "service": "gp", "text": "By the way, Amtrak prices the Northeast corridor to maximize profit, rather than ridership, which it uses to subsidize the rest of the country. So even as a thought exercise, this demonstrates how much we're getting reamed.", "timestamp": 1373638367}, {"author": "Alex", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/100936518160252317727", "anchor": "gp-1373640119898", "service": "gp", "text": "I think train length is not a problem -- most major-station platforms are designed for 10 car trains or longer, but on the NE Corridor Amtrak generally runs 8 car trains plus an engine, or 6 car Acelas plus two engines. Many commuter trains are longer in the NY area.\n
\n
\nMore pressing questions: How do you get the passengers onto and off the car? Do you lease Amtrak's platform and ticketing office? How do you get the car certified by the FRA to carry passengers? Who staffs the car? Who cleans and maintains it? What if there's a problem, like a police investigation or a passenger in distress? Do you call the Amtrak engineer? Would they be obliged to help you? What if there's a train delay or other issue? Do you owe your customers travel on alternate means?\n
\n
\nI feel like these are all issues for which Amtrak already has an economy of scale that you would not benefit from.", "timestamp": 1373640119}, {"author": "Josh", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/118273920476267337216", "anchor": "gp-1373640462007", "service": "gp", "text": "Yeah, it seems to me like the big problem here is that Amtrak will only take your care on a best-effort basis, and travelers often want a reliable schedule, not best-effort. (It can be done, e.g. family of airline employees who can fly free on any plane as long as they go standby, but I think it'd put a big dent in your possible ridership.)", "timestamp": 1373640462}, {"author": "Liz", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/106912596786226524817", "anchor": "gp-1373641083877", "service": "gp", "text": "I looked into this when I was researching travel options for passengers with dogs wanting to go from Boston to New York.", "timestamp": 1373641083}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/103013777355236494008", "anchor": "gp-1373642356199", "service": "gp", "text": "@Alex\n\u00a0\"most major-station platforms are designed for 10 car trains or longer\"\n
\n
\nIn the particular case, I think both Boston and New York can hold even longer trains.", "timestamp": 1373642356}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/103013777355236494008", "anchor": "gp-1373643157158", "service": "gp", "text": "@Alex\n\u00a0For most of your questions it comes down to \"do the same thing private cars already do. \u00a0Specifically:\n
\n
\n\"How do you get the passengers onto and off the car?\u00a0Do you lease Amtrak's platform and ticketing office?\"\n
\n
\nYou use the platforms, just like current private cars. \u00a0You don't need a ticketing office.\n
\n
\n\"How do you get the car certified by the FRA to carry passengers?\"\n
\n
\nCurrent private cars carry paying passengers, so this should be possible. \u00a0There's a lot of railroad law, however, so you'd want to hire a lawyer to spend a lot of time researching details.\n
\n
\n\"Who staffs the car? Who cleans and maintains it?\"\n
\n
\nHire people. \u00a0$100/trip for a conductor. \u00a0$50 every few trips for cleaning. \u00a0Maintenance on whatever schedule is customary for railcars.\u00a0\n
\n
\n\"What if there's a problem, like a police investigation or a passenger in distress? Do you call the Amtrak engineer?\"\n
\n
\nConductor handles normal issues. \u00a0If an emergency requires assistance from the engineer (to stop the train, etc) Amtrack provides it.\n
\n
\n\"What if there's a train delay or other issue? Do you owe your customers travel on alternate means?\"\n
\n
\nFigure out some good position between \"what Amtrack currently does\" and \"cancellations mean you get a refund\". \u00a0Be upfront about what that is so people know what they're getting into.", "timestamp": 1373643157}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/619770797232?comment_id=619794260212", "anchor": "fb-619794260212", "service": "fb", "text": "Danner: \"incredibly amused by listening to a concert on the way to NYC\"
One nice thing about this is then you're much less competing with Amtrack and more offering a different kind of service.", "timestamp": "1373646735"}, {"author": "Laura", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/619770797232?comment_id=619794394942", "anchor": "fb-619794394942", "service": "fb", "text": "Yes!!", "timestamp": "1373646798"}, {"author": "Jan-Willem", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/100580955183019057735", "anchor": "gp-1373653702414", "service": "gp", "text": "@David\n\u00a0should tell us why this couldn't possibly work.", "timestamp": 1373653702}, {"author": "David", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/116907782388306681703", "anchor": "gp-1373654853222", "service": "gp", "text": "I think the commenters so far have covered most of it. The one further technical challenge is coming up with cars that can run at 125 mph (NE Regional trains do), which will also drive up your maintenance costs. There is usually a car's worth of space left on Regional trains at Stamford, which is otherwise a pretty typical Metro-North station.\n
\n
\nOther thoughts: most NE corridor Amtrak (no c!) trains I've been on have been pretty full, which suggests their pricing is \"right\". Bus routes that aren't very specifically Boston to New York direct are irritatingly expensive (Greyhound to White Plains is priced much more like Amtrak than Fung Wah). Amtrak Acela and long-distance routes are priced to compete with air travel; if you don't mind it taking a day Boston to Chicago is cheaper on the Lake Shore Limited than on Southwest (haven't checked recently).\n
\n
\nWhat we really need is the Swiss model: SBB is actually something like four companies. One owns the infrastructure and sells timetable slots, and takes massive government subsidies. SBB Cargo and SBB Passenger both buy timetable slots, but on their own are profitable. If you wanted to start a private passenger service, it'd be under the same terms as the government-run companies.", "timestamp": 1373654853}, {"author": "Jeff", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/103925107321093261801", "anchor": "gp-1373658575161", "service": "gp", "text": "From\u00a0\nhttp://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/271/180/Private_Car_Tariff.pdf\n it appears that there's a minimum $1k charge per movement. And $100 for a conductor seems low, but I'm not sure what a reasonable figure would be.", "timestamp": 1373658575}, {"author": "David", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/116907782388306681703", "anchor": "gp-1373659045982", "service": "gp", "text": "Back of the envelope calculation: an employee could cost $100K/year and do 2 trips a day, 5 days a week, 50 weeks a year; so 500 trips/year; so $200/trip. That's more than the original estimate but the right order of magnitude.\n
\n
\nTo spin this another way: you're trying to take advantage of Amtrak's private-car rules to run the same service with roughly the same expenses the discount bus services provide. Dot the i's, cross the t's, and in principle it should work.", "timestamp": 1373659045}, {"author": "Fred", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/619770797232?comment_id=619854259972", "anchor": "fb-619854259972", "service": "fb", "text": "Great idea! I'm on board.", "timestamp": "1373686845"}, {"author": "Bruce", "source_link": "https://plus.google.com/106069916420504177797", "anchor": "gp-1486436972219", "service": "gp", "text": "What about investors to compete with Amtrak?", "timestamp": 1486436972}]}