{"items": [{"author": "David", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/notes/jeff-kaufman/abstracting-compassion/463709821212/?comment_id=463714931212", "anchor": "fb-463714931212", "service": "fb", "text": "I would ask: how do you know who needs help most? And does that mean others need no help at all?
These are hard questions. I made a decision at one point to always carry a stack of $1 bills and if asked give one or more without raising the question of worthiness. That way the question becomes what are you willing to give in this situation (i.e. your local environment) rather than does this specific person need or deserve it. I seeded this by getting $100 from the bank, and was very surprised at how long it lasted.", "timestamp": "1291608515"}, {"author": "Steven", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/notes/jeff-kaufman/abstracting-compassion/463709821212/?comment_id=463752656212", "anchor": "fb-463752656212", "service": "fb", "text": "The simplest thing to do is to move to a wealthy suburb, and then you won't have to see them...", "timestamp": "1291613732"}, {"author": "Anna", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/notes/jeff-kaufman/abstracting-compassion/463709821212/?comment_id=463829946212", "anchor": "fb-463829946212", "service": "fb", "text": "It is hard. It's also been hard for me not contributing to charity because of finances. I know I should be on the receiving end, but it's still hard.", "timestamp": "1291632916"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/notes/jeff-kaufman/abstracting-compassion/463709821212/?comment_id=463859501212", "anchor": "fb-463859501212", "service": "fb", "text": "@David:
\"\"\"\"how do you know who needs help most?\"\"\"
Someone living on the street in america is in bad shape, definitely. But a dollar spent on helping the homeless here (whether directly or through an organization) is just not going to go as far as one spent internationally, mostly because of the large difference in cost of living. Which I guess means I'm not looking for the people who need help the most, but instead the people who would be most helped by my donation.
\"\"\"Does that mean others need no help at all?\"\"\"
No, it doesn't. But it does mean that money spent helping them will not go as far, and if we want to maximize the good we do we should give to people who will be helped more. This is kind of the same question as the \"Should We Treat Inexpensive Diseases First\" one that I wrote about ( http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=417487556212 ) a little while ago.
\"\"\"I made a decision at one point to always carry a stack of $1 bills and if asked give one or more without raising the question of worthiness. That way the question becomes what are you willing to give in this situation (i.e. your local environment) rather than does this specific person need or deserve it.\"\"\"
I agree that trying to evaluate how much an individual panhandler needs or would be helped by the money is difficult. If I put value on giving locally, I would think about a strategy like yours.", "timestamp": "1291640004"}, {"author": "Michael", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/notes/jeff-kaufman/abstracting-compassion/463709821212/?comment_id=464620021212", "anchor": "fb-464620021212", "service": "fb", "text": "Sometimes I think of it in terms of how much *good* you are putting into the world, rather than just how much money you are giving to those in the most dire financial need. Certainly money is good, but it is not the only kind of good.
I also feel terrible guilt walking away from people asking for money, And I think that's something to be engaged rather than fought against. We are, after all, human beings, not calculators, and sometimes the good we put into the world is more than the face value of the currency. For example, giving a friend or family member a hand-made scarf can mean a lot more than a store-bought one, even though a scarf is still just a scarf. A dollar is still just a dollar, but sometimes it means a lot more--to the giver and to the recipient--went it's given hand to hand, eye to eye, rather than anonymously sent or received impersonally.
Especially when the person asking for money is most likely ignored and belittled time after time after time by every passer by. I often feel like I am betraying the other person's and my own humanity when I ignore a beggar on the street. Sometimes the validation of the another person's right to be acknowledged is worth more than the money it takes to do so.", "timestamp": "1291752463"}, {"author": "Julia", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/notes/jeff-kaufman/abstracting-compassion/463709821212/?comment_id=465131721212", "anchor": "fb-465131721212", "service": "fb", "text": "I don't think it's desirable to reduce compassion for the people we see on the sidewalks. Even if we decide our money helps more elsewhere, carrying these people in our minds may motivate us to act in other ways (voting, activism, profession).
I think it's unlikely people in other countries would enjoy their new goat, school, etc. more if they met the donors. I think the feel-good benefit in giving to someone you can see is almost entirely on the side of the donor. I don't want to privilege face-to-face giving because it makes me feel good. I'm not the point.", "timestamp": "1291842460"}, {"author": "Jonah", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/notes/jeff-kaufman/abstracting-compassion/463709821212/?comment_id=465175991212", "anchor": "fb-465175991212", "service": "fb", "text": "Of course you must keep in mind that it's not about the giver, but I think there's a lot to be said for giving someone on the street that moment of acknowledgement and respect, as the purpose in and of itself. That said, you could possibly accomplish that even without giving a dollar.", "timestamp": "1291849202"}, {"author": "Michael", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/notes/jeff-kaufman/abstracting-compassion/463709821212/?comment_id=465280571212", "anchor": "fb-465280571212", "service": "fb", "text": "Sure, the whole point of the thing is not about the donor; but I also think that feel-good benefit is worth something that extends beyond the donor. Like you said, carrying the needy that we pass every day in our hearts can motivate us to act on our compassion in other ways, as well as in ways that help those people directly. And one way we keep them in our hearts is through the visceral memory of what it is to give; that \"feel good benefit\" is more a means to greater ends than an end in itself.", "timestamp": "1291866547"}, {"author": "Anna", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/notes/jeff-kaufman/abstracting-compassion/463709821212/?comment_id=465383041212", "anchor": "fb-465383041212", "service": "fb", "text": "Jeff, check out this guy and the video I just posted/shared on FB: I think he's on to something. It's an emotional response to reach out and a correct one. If you wish to use your resources to help the greatest number of people and that's what feels right to you, go for it. If you choose to help your neighbor, it's enough. It's enough to share and participate in life because it matters to the people whom you save. It will matter to you and it will matter to all who are inspired by what you do. http://gimundo.com/.../narayanan-krishnan-serves-over-1.../", "timestamp": "1291893720"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/notes/jeff-kaufman/abstracting-compassion/463709821212/?comment_id=465408741212", "anchor": "fb-465408741212", "service": "fb", "text": "@Anna: your example isn't of someone choosing to help their neighbor; the people he's helping were not his neighbors until he moved there after being shocked by their previous diet. Which makes sense: most of us do not happen to live near the people that most need our help.
Using the numbers from here [1], it costs them 90c/person/day to serve meals. It's far more effective than trying to do the same thing in the united states.
Still, 90c/person/day is not that good. Over ten years we're talking about spending $3240/person. Assuming all these people would otherwise die (which is an assumption heavily in their favor), this means that cost per death averted is at least $3000. Other charities can do a lot better with the money. For example, village reach, which works to improve the supply chain for medicines in africa, has a cost per death averted at well under $1000, possibly as low as $200 [2]. (Their cost per additional vaccination is well under this, but many of the people you vaccinate would not be dying from the disease had you not vaccinated them). If the chef were trying to do as much good as possible, he would have had more impact continuing to work as a gourmet chef and donating as much of his salary as he could afford to.
When you say \"It's enough to share and participate in life because it matters to the people whom you save. It will matter to you and it will matter to all who are inspired by what you do\", I think I disagree. By donating to, say, village reach instead of this person's hunger charity, I can help 3 to 12 times as many people for the same amount of money. If what matters are the people who are actually helped, then I should be maximizing that.
[1] http://www.moneycontrol.com/.../message.../3063368/4863876
[2] http://www.givewell.org/intern.../top-charities/villagereach", "timestamp": "1291898902"}, {"author": "Anna", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/notes/jeff-kaufman/abstracting-compassion/463709821212/?comment_id=465630831212", "anchor": "fb-465630831212", "service": "fb", "text": "If everyone felt and acted on the feelings you're describing Jeff, then not everyone would receive help. I'd hate to be the person in your neighborhood who did not receive help because he was only one person and not a village. I understand your argument, but you are arguing as if you were the only one who contributed to charities. If that was the case, then trying to reach the greatest number of people would make sense. But again, there would be so many individuals spread out around the world who don't meet the criteria of maximum numbers individually. To me, it still makes sense to give where you feel the most drawn to give to. Narayanan, btw, did help his neighbor - or actually many of them. They were all from the village where he came from. But that shouldn't matter, I only said \"neighbor\" as an example that there are people in proximity to you who suffer. Nor was I suggesting that you focus on those who are near to you. I just don't agree that \"maximizing\" matters - putting your efforts where your heart is does.", "timestamp": "1291932691"}, {"author": "Julia", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/notes/jeff-kaufman/abstracting-compassion/463709821212/?comment_id=465637456212", "anchor": "fb-465637456212", "service": "fb", "text": "If I had to be homeless, I would much rather do it in Cambridge MA than, say, Port-au-Prince. Even the poorest people in Cambridge have some care. In some places, they have no care.", "timestamp": "1291933786"}, {"author": "Anna", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/notes/jeff-kaufman/abstracting-compassion/463709821212/?comment_id=465639906212", "anchor": "fb-465639906212", "service": "fb", "text": "I'd rather not be homeless anywhere. I guess you could get more handouts in Cambridge. I remember my exposure to extreme poverty on a trip to Mexico in the 70s and witnessing poverty in the city and the country. The city (Mexico City) seemed worse. I used to always think the people in the country had it better because there would be food growing and possibly stables for shelter, but now I think the city has more resources. I think if you're poor enough to be homeless, it's all bad no matter where you are, but your chances in a city of means are better. However, chances alone don't guarantee survival or better.", "timestamp": "1291934094"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/notes/jeff-kaufman/abstracting-compassion/463709821212/?comment_id=465735441212", "anchor": "fb-465735441212", "service": "fb", "text": "@Anna: you write that \"If everyone felt and acted on the feelings you're describing Jeff, then not everyone would receive help\". I understand that. It is bad. It hurts me. The problem is, some people are not going to receive help no matter what you or I do. At current levels, there is *far* more need than giving. Huge numbers of people who need help are not getting it. I look at that lack and say \"If we can't help everyone, lets at least help as many as we can.\" I understand that this means that the people who are less cost effective to help will not get my money. But it means that more good will come of my giving than if I gave any other way.", "timestamp": "1291948897"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/notes/jeff-kaufman/abstracting-compassion/463709821212/?comment_id=465736291212", "anchor": "fb-465736291212", "service": "fb", "text": "@Michael: what you wrote sounds inspiring, but I don't think I understand what you're suggesting. Is it that by giving small amounts in person we are motivated to be more compassionate in the rest of our lives?", "timestamp": "1291949071"}, {"author": "Jonah", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/notes/jeff-kaufman/abstracting-compassion/463709821212/?comment_id=465795856212", "anchor": "fb-465795856212", "service": "fb", "text": "1. Giving to panhandlers may have the unintended negative side effect of incentivizing panhandling over use of government services for the poor (or by indirectly discouraging the government from helping the poor on the grounds that they're doing okay panhandling).
2. David Elworthy's suggestion of carrying a stack of dolars and giving to anybody who asks sounds potentially reasonable (on account of the possibility of promoting peace of mind for yourself).
3. See Holden's \"Nothing Wrong With Selfish Giving: Just Don't Call It Philanthropy\" http://blog.givewell.org/.../nothing-wrong-with-selfish.../ .", "timestamp": "1291963027"}, {"author": "Anna", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/notes/jeff-kaufman/abstracting-compassion/463709821212/?comment_id=465846861212", "anchor": "fb-465846861212", "service": "fb", "text": "Jeff, another thing you might want to consider is if what you does helps enough. If, for example, you give wool mittens and socks to a homeless man, his hands and feet will still freeze because mittens and socks are not enough to keep one warm outside all day and overnight. Say you give enough to feed a family of four for a week. A week might be all they need to get past a rough patch in their lives. If, on the other hand, there is no food in their area, or if they have no means, then they are dead in another week. The organization you shared looks great and may well do the job. Another one that might interest you is the heifer project, which pools funds to give families in targeted third world villages enough means to grow their own food (livestock, seeds, and education) http://www.heifer.org/site/c.edJRKQNiFiG/b.201470/", "timestamp": "1291978238"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/notes/jeff-kaufman/abstracting-compassion/463709821212/?comment_id=465892101212", "anchor": "fb-465892101212", "service": "fb", "text": "@Anna: pooling people's funds is very much a good idea. It's also something that pretty much every charity does. I think I must be missing something.", "timestamp": "1291989810"}, {"author": "Michael", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/notes/jeff-kaufman/abstracting-compassion/463709821212/?comment_id=465906996212", "anchor": "fb-465906996212", "service": "fb", "text": "@jeff: more or less. it's that the human being has remarkable potential to do good, but that we do the most good when we do it holistically, taking into account what is near to our communities as well as what is distant. Each tendency reinforces the other.", "timestamp": "1291992412"}, {"author": "Anna", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/notes/jeff-kaufman/abstracting-compassion/463709821212/?comment_id=466039376212", "anchor": "fb-466039376212", "service": "fb", "text": "Yes, of course about the pooling. Jeff, I think you're picking on me. I'm at a place in my life where I don't express myself as well as I should. The Heifer project gives struggling people the means to support themselves and their families. They bring resources and knowledge into impoverished villages so that, over time, the villagers can feed their family and earn some money.", "timestamp": "1292015056"}]}