{"items": [{"author": "Scott Alexander", "source_link": "https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/MoJune4zKpneAFJ2r#XoHRsZdwdRhJs8Rf3", "anchor": "lw-XoHRsZdwdRhJs8Rf3", "service": "lw", "text": "Banning fresh bread doesn't decrease human caloric needs. Wouldn't making fresh bread less desirable just mean people replace it with other foods, spending the same amount of money overall (or more, since bread is probably cheaper than its replacement) and removing any benefit from bread price controls? Or was the English government working off a model where people were overconsuming food because of how tasty fresh bread was?", "timestamp": 1589828116}, {"author": "Jay Molstad", "source_link": "https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/MoJune4zKpneAFJ2r#rbrNPjqXSG6e7tfCf", "anchor": "lw-rbrNPjqXSG6e7tfCf", "service": "lw", "text": "→ I suspect that fresh bread was actually a luxury food at the time, with pottages more common among the poor.", "timestamp": 1589839015}, {"author": "jefftk", "source_link": "https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/MoJune4zKpneAFJ2r#QyLyrNpfJPxcHPf7a", "anchor": "lw-QyLyrNpfJPxcHPf7a", "service": "lw", "text": "→ I don't understand either!\n
They did import rice: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transport_vessels_for_the_British_Government's_importation_of_rice_from_Bengal_(1800\u20131802)\n", "timestamp": 1589896658}, {"author": "lexande", "source_link": "https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/MoJune4zKpneAFJ2r#HgfFxBbATySFfgFRa", "anchor": "lw-HgfFxBbATySFfgFRa", "service": "lw", "text": "→ 1) People are probably less likely to throw out stale bread if it's impossible to obtain fresh bread?
2) If the price of e.g. fish is less regulated but generally higher than that of bread, banning fresh bread would lead to a larger rise in the price of fish as more rich people switch to it, which would perhaps lead to fishermen working longer hours and catching more fish, helping make up the overall calorie shortfall from the poor harvest without increasing costs for poor people who could never afford fish in the first place. Whereas letting the price of bread itself rise would be more regressive?
3) Same as with fish but with meat from livestock, pushing tradeoffs in the direction of "slaughter this year" vs "keep fattening up for next year", which could be desirable if the wheat shortage is expected to be temporary, and might even decrease demand for wheat as livestock feed if that was a thing at the time?
Not sure how large any of these effects would be.", "timestamp": 1590200827}, {"author": "Dagon", "source_link": "https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/MoJune4zKpneAFJ2r#CjdgJqaj2dwSRWevW", "anchor": "lw-CjdgJqaj2dwSRWevW", "service": "lw", "text": "The cynic in me leans heavily on the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bootleggers_and_Baptists model of regulation. Most legislation is a compromise among many different interests, and it's easy to imagine that the parts which don't make sense are a mix of: Economic thinking and relying on prices was (and is) very unpopular for things important enough to justify regulation in the first place.Some bakers (presumably higher-volume and more influential) benefit by limiting their competition. This prevents someone offering higher-quality or cheaper bread.Price-fixing (including quality-fixing) almost always benefits those who've figured out the scaling/pricing at that level, to the detriment of experimentation and upstarts. ", "timestamp": 1589834897}, {"author": "rossry", "source_link": "https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/MoJune4zKpneAFJ2r#AaJPhw8frc9SFjfHJ", "anchor": "lw-AaJPhw8frc9SFjfHJ", "service": "lw", "text": "The first two regulations have reference prices for wheat that differ by 50%. How far apart in time were they issued?\n", "timestamp": 1589891314}, {"author": "jefftk", "source_link": "https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/MoJune4zKpneAFJ2r#NYxyDwyArWiDfaqCB", "anchor": "lw-NYxyDwyArWiDfaqCB", "service": "lw", "text": "→ They're the same regulation. It has the form \"when wheat costs X, farthing bread should weigh Y\" for many values of X\n", "timestamp": 1589896563}, {"author": "bfinn", "source_link": "https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/MoJune4zKpneAFJ2r#aQ9u5vctmarxXZCRp", "anchor": "lw-aQ9u5vctmarxXZCRp", "service": "lw", "text": "In World War II the UK government banned commercial bakers from making white bread, and required them to use national flour to bake 'the National Loaf'. This was particularly unappetising and unpopular. I think that as in World War I it had to be sold stale; or in any case, it went stale quickly. I suspect in part it was intended to be unappetising to limit consumption.
http://thewartimekitchen.com/?p=104 ", "timestamp": 1589902188}, {"author": "hwka", "source_link": "https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/MoJune4zKpneAFJ2r#6LrRGTLQAjwPRo4Hi", "anchor": "lw-6LrRGTLQAjwPRo4Hi", "service": "lw", "text": "Banning fresh bread and requiring bakers to store fresh bread until it is stale....to discourage consumption.
Derbyshire Police officers pour black water dye into the 'Blue Lagoon' in Harpur Hill, Buxton to discourage people visiting the lake during the 2020 Fake Pandemic.
History repeating itself.", "timestamp": 1590720333}, {"author": "jefftk", "source_link": "https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/MoJune4zKpneAFJ2r#keZZDc32ztNhwgnMz", "anchor": "lw-keZZDc32ztNhwgnMz", "service": "lw", "text": "→ These actually seem pretty different to me. In the case of mandating stale bread during the famine, they still wanted consumption, but they wanted to make it less attractive. In the case of the lake, they're trying to make it unattractive enough to stop \"consumption\".\n
(Reading more, it looks like the quarry was also died black in 2013 and 2016, and they're dying it because the water is caustic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harpur_Hill_Quarry)\n", "timestamp": 1590779290}]}