{"items": [{"author": "Peter", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100121696206662?comment_id=10100121697558952", "anchor": "fb-10100121697558952", "service": "fb", "text": "So how much turnover is necessary to be mostly aerobic decomposition? We have a compost pile held up with a net which I hope allows more air circulation. It doesn't smell very much, so I'm hoping that indicates little anaerobic decomposition. However, the leaves and grass dominate the kitchen scraps, so they may hide the smell.", "timestamp": "1573835148"}, {"author": "William", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100121696206662?comment_id=10100121700048962", "anchor": "fb-10100121700048962", "service": "fb", "text": "What about emissions resulting from transporting the waste to the landfill?", "timestamp": "1573836162"}, {"author": "William", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100121696206662?comment_id=10100121700612832", "anchor": "fb-10100121700612832", "service": "fb", "text": "Also, if methane is 25x worse than CO2 per molecule, don't we still need to look at how much methane is given off compared to how much CO2 is given off to determine how much worse the anaerobic composting is? (Or the number of molecules equal or very different?)", "timestamp": "1573836387"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100121696206662?comment_id=10100121700612832&reply_comment_id=10100121706426182", "anchor": "fb-10100121700612832_10100121706426182", "service": "fb", "text": "→ William I *think* it's the same carbon being released either way, either as CH4 or CO2, but I'm not totally sure", "timestamp": "1573837440"}, {"author": "David", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100121696206662?comment_id=10100121700612832&reply_comment_id=10100121755183472", "anchor": "fb-10100121700612832_10100121755183472", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Jeff Kaufman My limited understanding is that CH4 is a worse greenhouse gas as the molecule has more degrees of freedom. The mechanism is that IR radiated from the earth excites bonds in the molecule which then re-radiate the energy back in all directions including back downwards. CH4 has more degrees of freedom as it has more bonds, hence more ways to absorb and reradiate at IR frequencies. However, one consideration is that CH4 breaks down much more quickly. IIRC the half life is 10 years, while CO2 basically doesn't break down, but gets absorbed by the oceans and eventually turned into limestone over ~500,000 years. The CH4 presumably oxidizes so you get CO2 + 2xH2O, so you don't get away without CO2. It's just that the larger effect is short lived. (Not that this makes much difference to your argument, it's just a bit of knowledge I've been waiting for a chance to deploy :-)).", "timestamp": "1573855027"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100121696206662?comment_id=10100121700612832&reply_comment_id=10100121761141532", "anchor": "fb-10100121700612832_10100121761141532", "service": "fb", "text": "→ David yup: that's why we usually count CH4 as 25x worse than CO2 even though its much worse pre-decomposition", "timestamp": "1573857255"}, {"author": "William", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100121696206662?comment_id=10100121701221612", "anchor": "fb-10100121701221612", "service": "fb", "text": "Lastly, I always thought that people who compost did so primarily to create fertilizer for their garden, not to help with global warming. Is this not true?", "timestamp": "1573836494"}, {"author": "Margaret", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100121696206662?comment_id=10100121701221612&reply_comment_id=10100121772768232", "anchor": "fb-10100121701221612_10100121772768232", "service": "fb", "text": "→ William I live in a part of Massachusetts where the majority of towns have a \u201cpay as you throw\u201d policy for trash. I\u2019m sure many people here started composting to cut down on trash disposal costs.", "timestamp": "1573861337"}, {"author": "Hollis", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100121696206662?comment_id=10100121702793462", "anchor": "fb-10100121702793462", "service": "fb", "text": "Does your analysis account for carbon emissions from the vehicles required to collect, transport, process, and store either MSW or industrial compost?
Also, here in Vermont, it's against state law to put compostable food scraps into the trash, so that's part of the discussion, too.", "timestamp": "1573837106"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100121696206662?comment_id=10100121702793462&reply_comment_id=10100121706555922", "anchor": "fb-10100121702793462_10100121706555922", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Hollis in VT what do people generally do with their scraps? Compost them on their own land? Industrial compost? Put them in a pile and ignore them?", "timestamp": "1573837528"}, {"author": "Hollis", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100121696206662?comment_id=10100121702793462&reply_comment_id=10100121707279472", "anchor": "fb-10100121702793462_10100121707279472", "service": "fb", "text": "→ All three of those. All of the trash haulers in the state are legally required to collect compost, but many of them have elected not to do it (or rather, \"are in the process of implementing compost collection\" and keep getting more and more extensions). Here in Chittenden County, you can drop off food scraps for free at all the solid waste dropoff centers, and they're industrially composted. Middlebury has horse-drawn compost pickup available.
There's been a big governmental push to get people to compost food waste on their own property, and I suspect that most people exist somewhere on the continuum between \"I put it on that pile in the backyard\" and \"I shovel out that pile occasionally\". I know some really stoked composters who turn their piles weekly, and I used to be one. Now I'm a parent.", "timestamp": "1573837810"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100121696206662?comment_id=10100121702793462&reply_comment_id=10100121707464102", "anchor": "fb-10100121702793462_10100121707464102", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Hollis if the law results in a lot of anerobic composting it may be harmful", "timestamp": "1573837907"}, {"author": "Hollis", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100121696206662?comment_id=10100121702793462&reply_comment_id=10100121731725482", "anchor": "fb-10100121702793462_10100121731725482", "service": "fb", "text": "→ I'm wary of too-freely applying the strategy of just ignoring laws that I believe might be harmful.", "timestamp": "1573846492"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100121696206662?comment_id=10100121702793462&reply_comment_id=10100121733466992", "anchor": "fb-10100121702793462_10100121733466992", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Hollis sorry: if the law is having harmful consequences advocating to change the law is what I was thinking", "timestamp": "1573847380"}, {"author": "Hollis", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100121696206662?comment_id=10100121702793462&reply_comment_id=10100121734250422", "anchor": "fb-10100121702793462_10100121734250422", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Agreed.", "timestamp": "1573847766"}, {"author": "Darren", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100121696206662?comment_id=10100121702793462&reply_comment_id=10100121764789222", "anchor": "fb-10100121702793462_10100121764789222", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Jeff Kaufman, I see the logic behind aerobic digestion being better than anaerobic, but since throwing scraps in the trash basically amounts to anaerobic, I don\u2019t think that\u2019s a better alternative if you have industrial composting available, which is aerobic. Currently, there may be emissions associated with transport and processing, but that would be avoided if we achieve carbon-neutral transportation (or everybody simply learns how to compost properly).
Another reason for the VT Universal Recycling Law (which is what Hollis referred you and covers composting as well) is that Vermont has little if any remaining landfill space (due partly to physical limitations, and partly impacts to other land uses/NIMBYism). The idea is to reduce the volume of trash going to landfills so we use what we have more effectively and/or reduce the amount that we\u2019re trucking to other states and Canada, for both carbon emissions and economic reasons.
The last macroenvironmental issue to remember is that \u201crecycling\u201d food scraps into fertilizer that we use to grow more food is probably better than artificial fertilizers which are mined or manufactured with a major carbon footprint, not to mention other possible ecological impacts. It also supports local agriculture, which has a lower carbon footprint.", "timestamp": "1573858763"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100121696206662?comment_id=10100121702793462&reply_comment_id=10100121979414112", "anchor": "fb-10100121702793462_10100121979414112", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Darren industrial compost is fine; this post is against \"throw it in a pile and ignore it\" backyard compost", "timestamp": "1573928952"}, {"author": "Perry", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100121696206662?comment_id=10100121708442142", "anchor": "fb-10100121708442142", "service": "fb", "text": "We take our compost to the nearby farmers market or the local organic store on a weekly basis. I guess that's \"industrial composting\"? We live in a very small condo with little space to work with, but we're happy to compost and give to folks who can use it.", "timestamp": "1573838368"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100121696206662?comment_id=10100121708442142&reply_comment_id=10100121709564892", "anchor": "fb-10100121708442142_10100121709564892", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Perry yes, that's probably industrial / professional", "timestamp": "1573838877"}, {"author": "Perry", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100121696206662?comment_id=10100121708442142&reply_comment_id=10100121710707602", "anchor": "fb-10100121708442142_10100121710707602", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Yeah, we can't do any better than that, based on where we live. I hope that's sufficient.", "timestamp": "1573839348"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100121696206662?comment_id=10100121708442142&reply_comment_id=10100121719729522", "anchor": "fb-10100121708442142_10100121719729522", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Perry industrial compost is good! They'll make sure it's either aerobic or they'll capture the methane", "timestamp": "1573841717"}, {"author": "Perry", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100121696206662?comment_id=10100121708442142&reply_comment_id=10100121734040842", "anchor": "fb-10100121708442142_10100121734040842", "service": "fb", "text": "→ What I don't understand is what is allowed to be composted differs by region. Like we used to take our compost to Alexandria, where they allow items in compostable bags, but when we take it to a nearby farmers market in Arlington, they don't allow these compostable bags.", "timestamp": "1573847687"}, {"author": "Michael", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100121696206662?comment_id=10100121713741522", "anchor": "fb-10100121713741522", "service": "fb", "text": "When I got here, having sufficient land to put the compost far from the house, I decided that all compostable discards would go to a pit in the ground, and would compost naturally. I was very soon informed by some local animals that this was not a compost pit, it was an animal feeding pit. So I simply made sure that nothing I put out there would harm the animals. Whatever I put there magically disappears. I refer to eggshells as \"calcium pills for my neighbors\". I do not put chocolate out there, as I know that chocolate is unsafe for dogs, and a neighbor dog might occasionally get loose and visit -- and unsafe for dogs probably also means unsafe for the local foxes and coyotes. I try to be a good neighbor to the animals who roam this area. I never feel that food is wasted, even if I buy it and don't eat it, as long as it goes out to the pit. I have no idea whether I'm helping or hurting the ecology around here, it never occurred to me to get any sort of expert opinion.", "timestamp": "1573839439"}, {"author": "Lee", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100121696206662?comment_id=10100121715038922", "anchor": "fb-10100121715038922", "service": "fb", "text": "Taking many things into account, Susanna Ballard.", "timestamp": "1573839959"}, {"author": "Emily", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100121696206662?comment_id=10100121715048902", "anchor": "fb-10100121715048902", "service": "fb", "text": "Growing up, and also my current apartment, have a compost bin that has a turning mechanism and growing up we'd fight over whose turn it was to turn the compost. It also has an opening to remove new dirt from the bottom", "timestamp": "1573839962"}, {"author": "Ambivert", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100121696206662?comment_id=10100121724724512", "anchor": "fb-10100121724724512", "service": "fb", "text": "This post of yours surprises me, considering the recent news item about methane and landfills in CA:
https://www.sciencenews.org/.../california-landfills-are...", "timestamp": "1573843918"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100121696206662?comment_id=10100121724724512&reply_comment_id=10100121728387172", "anchor": "fb-10100121724724512_10100121728387172", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Landfills showing up on a survey of \"small surface features or bits of infrastructure no more than 10 meters in diameter\" that emit lots of methane sounds like broken capture systems", "timestamp": "1573845574"}, {"author": "Kevin", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100121696206662?comment_id=10100121724724512&reply_comment_id=10100121741660572", "anchor": "fb-10100121724724512_10100121741660572", "service": "fb", "text": "→ I understood broken capture systems to be the norm at landfills, both for carbon and also to a lesser extent for toxic chemical pollutants. Don't really know though. I wonder how reliable available data is.", "timestamp": "1573851261"}, {"author": "Theresa", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100121696206662?comment_id=10100121724764432", "anchor": "fb-10100121724764432", "service": "fb", "text": "THE complete book about composting, and probably more than you ever wanted to know: http://humanurehandbook.com/dow.../Humanure_Handbook_all.pdf", "timestamp": "1573843929"}, {"author": "Theresa", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100121696206662?comment_id=10100121725148662", "anchor": "fb-10100121725148662", "service": "fb", "text": "Composting animals is legal in states where factory farming is big, and there are many laws in place regarding doing it properly. One can spend an enormous amount of time researching the topic of composting and the biology and science of the microbes and bacteria that make it all work.", "timestamp": "1573844141"}, {"author": "Martha", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100121696206662?comment_id=10100121727089772", "anchor": "fb-10100121727089772", "service": "fb", "text": "I didn't know this about aerobic vs anaerobic decomposition. I guess I'll be making more use of my new pitchfork!", "timestamp": "1573845023"}, {"author": "Lauren", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100121696206662?comment_id=10100121727968012", "anchor": "fb-10100121727968012", "service": "fb", "text": "Cc Herschel Jason Dana
Maybe worth showing this to Chris. I\u2019m guessing we already do the right things here but I dunno.", "timestamp": "1573845444"}, {"author": "Herschel", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100121696206662?comment_id=10100121727968012&reply_comment_id=10100121760078662", "anchor": "fb-10100121727968012_10100121760078662", "service": "fb", "text": "→ I'm doubtful", "timestamp": "1573856661"}, {"author": "Kevin", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100121696206662?comment_id=10100121743022842", "anchor": "fb-10100121743022842", "service": "fb", "text": "I think most household piles have lots of aerobic, and sometimes some anaeric too if they're neglected. Ground-based systems are much better than bin-based systems, at least partly because worms and bugs open up some air channels.
But I like composting mostlybbecause I dislike the trash so much. The trash can is a \"not my responsibility\" box where you stick things you don't want to think about. In those terms, it could be framed staggeringly childish. Furthermore, I think landfills are a moral and spiritual abomination, even if their harm isn't topping the charts these days.
Composting introduces people to \"you have responsibility for your wake, for how you impact the world\" and interrupts \"meh, get it out of sight and out of mind.\" It supports gardens and nudges the household and the neighborhood away from being units of consumption and more towards being closed-loop systems. I think that's a substantial benefit in and of itself.
Zooming out a level, I often take a much more cultural perspective on such questions. I'm interested in complex human social and behavioral systems, which are driving both the problems we face and the solutions to them. Every thing else seems like the symptom, where culture feels like the cause. Compost is a useful microcosm to engage that lens with.
Looking beyond the superficial, perceived impacts to actual impacts is important and related, so I love questions like these.", "timestamp": "1573852027"}, {"author": "Nir", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100121696206662?comment_id=10100121755986862", "anchor": "fb-10100121755986862", "service": "fb", "text": "My mom saves produce scraps and eggshells, runs them in the food processor and dumps the dirt into the garden (then REALLY cleans the food processor). This could probably work for you if you wanted to do it at home", "timestamp": "1573855434"}]}