{"items": [{"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100117129468442?comment_id=10100117135112132", "anchor": "fb-10100117135112132", "service": "fb", "text": "I wrote to a friend who works in medicine: \"Hypothetical: if someone were going into anaphylaxis, would triggering their fight-or-flight response help?\" They called me immediately, concerned that this wasn't actually hypothetical.", "timestamp": "1571576359"}, {"author": "Martin", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100117129468442?comment_id=10100117135112132&reply_comment_id=10100117237327292", "anchor": "fb-10100117135112132_10100117237327292", "service": "fb", "text": "→ It's hilarious that they thought it was even possible that you were in an acute situation and that your process was to email a speculative hypothesis to a doctor.", "timestamp": "1571617439"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100117129468442?comment_id=10100117135112132&reply_comment_id=10100117239697542", "anchor": "fb-10100117135112132_10100117239697542", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Martin to be fair, it turned out they were only recently up from a short nap after working a 24hr shift", "timestamp": "1571618032"}, {"author": "Ronni", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100117129468442?comment_id=10100117145700912", "anchor": "fb-10100117145700912", "service": "fb", "text": "Quite apart from the actual content of this post, \"epistemic warning\" is a great idea.", "timestamp": "1571582562"}, {"author": "Janet", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100117129468442?comment_id=10100117146279752", "anchor": "fb-10100117146279752", "service": "fb", "text": "Treat the local reaction immediately. Benadryl can be a life saver. Find something with high absorption to put on the sting to absorb the toxin - clay, toothpaste, anything that can help to absorb it from the sting. And be sure to remove the stinger. I would say that inducing the fight or flight response would make it worse because you are not only increasing adrenaline, you are also inducing hyperventilation, which is going to make breathing harder and is also going to increase blood flow,which is going to increase the rate in which the toxin spreads to the heart and lungs. Better to do the opposite ... slow these rates.", "timestamp": "1571582888"}, {"author": "Elissa", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100117129468442?comment_id=10100117170301612", "anchor": "fb-10100117170301612", "service": "fb", "text": "It\u2019s physiologically plausible! Many physiologically plausible ideas don\u2019t work at all or are harmful. If you ever suspect you may be in this situation, being prepared with epi is the way to go.", "timestamp": "1571591006"}, {"author": "Jillian", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100117129468442?comment_id=10100117184388382", "anchor": "fb-10100117184388382", "service": "fb", "text": "Dumb math question: what numbers are the numbers that are 20x lower than the other numbers? I'm not sure if it's my reading comprehension or if they just haven't been included.", "timestamp": "1571596239"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100117129468442?comment_id=10100117184388382&reply_comment_id=10100117186304542", "anchor": "fb-10100117184388382_10100117186304542", "service": "fb", "text": "→ \"what numbers are the numbers that are 20x lower than the other numbers?\"
The concentration of epinephrine in the blood:
* after being given an Epi-Pen shot: ~0.5 ng/nl
* during a heart attack: ~10 ng/ml", "timestamp": "1571596823"}, {"author": "Jillian", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100117129468442?comment_id=10100117184388382&reply_comment_id=10100117190316502", "anchor": "fb-10100117184388382_10100117190316502", "service": "fb", "text": "→ So then the next question which it sounds like the health professionals don't want us to explore, is, what can you do that's not actually harmful that will stimulate that kind of fight or flight response.", "timestamp": "1571597735"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100117129468442?comment_id=10100117184388382&reply_comment_id=10100117190730672", "anchor": "fb-10100117184388382_10100117190730672", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Jillian yup!
And with the further problem that if it becomes known that, I don't know, friends will pull a knife on you because you're having an allergy attack but they're only doing it to scare you into getting batter, it will stop working.", "timestamp": "1571597874"}, {"author": "Hollis", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100117129468442?comment_id=10100117184388382&reply_comment_id=10100117193969182", "anchor": "fb-10100117184388382_10100117193969182", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Also, menacing is a crime and we don't want \"but I thought she was having an allergic reaction so I tried to scare by making her THINK I was trying to mug her\" to become a valid excuse...", "timestamp": "1571598836"}, {"author": "jimrandomh", "source_link": "https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/rdLbLJqjCHrKJHXiB#4v9N6FGvcrtDCunfk", "anchor": "lw-4v9N6FGvcrtDCunfk", "service": "lw", "text": "I expect that knowing you're having anaphylaxis without a solution is already reasonably close to the upper end of psychological stress, and you can't add that much more. The reason the epinephrine concentrations are so much higher in cardiac arrest patients is not because cardiac arrest is psychologically stressful, it's because epinephrine release is triggered by hypoxia.", "timestamp": 1571599392}, {"author": "ChristianKl", "source_link": "https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/rdLbLJqjCHrKJHXiB#oo45XTbHhFGs3D3ac", "anchor": "lw-oo45XTbHhFGs3D3ac", "service": "lw", "text": "→ This suggests that blocking the ability of the person to breath for a minute might be a way to push epinephrine concentrations.", "timestamp": 1571672996}, {"author": "jkaufman", "source_link": "https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/rdLbLJqjCHrKJHXiB#TfnjxC3kra5A3eb9z", "anchor": "lw-TfnjxC3kra5A3eb9z", "service": "lw", "text": "→ → Doesn't anaphylaxis already do this?\n", "timestamp": 1571680389}, {"author": "ChristianKl", "source_link": "https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/rdLbLJqjCHrKJHXiB#g499kbdWrs8S6anRw", "anchor": "lw-g499kbdWrs8S6anRw", "service": "lw", "text": "→ → → I'm not sure that it does it fast enough. You likely need high CO2 blood concentration to get your epinephrine and I'm not sure you get that in the normal anaphylaxis.
At the moment I have another open question about whether anaphylaxis shock might happen in situations where the body somehow doesn't produce as much epinephrine as it should and therefore a feedback process in the body gets out of wrack.", "timestamp": 1571682587}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100117129468442?comment_id=10100117198185732", "anchor": "fb-10100117198185732", "service": "fb", "text": "What's interesting to me is that this means that you probably can handle anaphylaxis by getting into the right mental state. Which isn't at all something I would have guessed a week ago.", "timestamp": "1571599724"}, {"author": "Jillian", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100117129468442?comment_id=10100117198185732&reply_comment_id=10100117216983062", "anchor": "fb-10100117198185732_10100117216983062", "service": "fb", "text": "→ But I'm not sure you can self trigger that mental state short of self-harm.", "timestamp": "1571607243"}, {"author": "Josh", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100117129468442?comment_id=10100117198185732&reply_comment_id=10100117231553862", "anchor": "fb-10100117198185732_10100117231553862", "service": "fb", "text": "→ This is like the third time in 48 hours I've heard something that reminded me of Wim Hof (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wim_Hof), who apparently has techniques along these lines for resisting extreme cold temperatures.", "timestamp": "1571614930"}, {"author": "Michael", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100117129468442?comment_id=10100117213974092", "anchor": "fb-10100117213974092", "service": "fb", "text": "Why doesn't pseudoephedrine work?", "timestamp": "1571605878"}, {"author": "Sam", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100117129468442?comment_id=10100117223255492", "anchor": "fb-10100117223255492", "service": "fb", "text": "Idk, my guess is that if you're going into anaphylactic shock, you're already aware that your life is in imminent danger and your body is already releasing a ton of epinephrine. I'm unclear on why a person undergoing a heart attack has more in the blood than a person with anaphylaxis, but it must be something other than just \"about to die.\"", "timestamp": "1571610410"}, {"author": "Julia", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100117129468442?comment_id=10100117223255492&reply_comment_id=10100117333918722", "anchor": "fb-10100117223255492_10100117333918722", "service": "fb", "text": "→ I was wondering about this too.", "timestamp": "1571654685"}, {"author": "Martin", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100117129468442?comment_id=10100117240735462", "anchor": "fb-10100117240735462", "service": "fb", "text": "This is fascinating because it goes against my own reaction, which would be to reduce anxiety by adopting a state of mindfulness to the whole thing. It raises another question: what fraction of life's events are best dealt with by increasing your body''s natural flight or fight response (FOFR), what fraction are beast dealt with by going with the FOFR, and what fraction is best dealt with with a reduced or absent FOFR?", "timestamp": "1571618255"}, {"author": "Martin", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100117129468442?comment_id=10100117240735462&reply_comment_id=10100117241883162", "anchor": "fb-10100117240735462_10100117241883162", "service": "fb", "text": "→ My estimates are something like 0.1%/1%/98.9%. But I might be way off.", "timestamp": "1571618770"}]}