{"items": [{"author": "Phillip", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100108991546902?comment_id=10100109003962022", "anchor": "fb-10100109003962022", "service": "fb", "text": "But they don't learn there are consequences to bad decisions.It's a hard problem. Children, unconsciously, look to adults to provide structure and keep them safe.Thus when they have a consequence to their bad decision, they don't fully understand how the adult let that happen, again, unconsciously. Parenting is tricky. Fortunately, most children do fine with imperfect parenting. I admit, however to thinking my parents were perfect, but, I'm weird.", "timestamp": "1567216964"}, {"author": "Danner", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100108991546902?comment_id=10100109003962022&reply_comment_id=10100109006227482", "anchor": "fb-10100109003962022_10100109006227482", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Learning requires experience, and experience comes from mistakes. Parenting is choosing which mistakes to allow your child to make, and when.
Jeff's kids are going to learn his habit, of packing a costt just in case. It'll be reinforced when they forget and are uncomfortable.", "timestamp": "1567217236"}, {"author": "Phillip", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100108991546902?comment_id=10100109003962022&reply_comment_id=10100109006975982", "anchor": "fb-10100109003962022_10100109006975982", "service": "fb", "text": "→ That's the question: Do they learn the habit of packing the coat, or do they learn despite making a wrong choice it's alright?", "timestamp": "1567217343"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100108991546902?comment_id=10100109003962022&reply_comment_id=10100109008607712", "anchor": "fb-10100109003962022_10100109008607712", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Phillip if I said \"if you don't put on a coat you're going to be cold\", and then when they didn't put on a coat I pulled one out of my backpack to keep them from being cold, that's what you're saying. Instead I don't have the discussion at all, and a coat is just one of the things I bring along as a parent to handle the circumstances, like a water bottle.
There are other times when I do need to get a firm decision from them, and in those cases they're getting practice in making hard decisions and making due with the consequences. If they ask me to make them some food and then change their mind about whether that's what they wanted, that's tough and I'm not going to go make them something else instead. This needs to be calibrated to their current level of decision-making ability, though: I'm not going to give them choices yet where any of the outcomes would be really bad, because they're 3y and 5y.", "timestamp": "1567217667"}, {"author": "Josh", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100108991546902?comment_id=10100109003962022&reply_comment_id=10100109025608642", "anchor": "fb-10100109003962022_10100109025608642", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Do you talk to them about the stuff you routinely pack, like water bottles and coats? I try to, but probably don't consistently, and at this point they know things like \"I'll bring the camelbak\" means water, kleenex, bandaids, and probably not snacks unless someone says snacks.", "timestamp": "1567228694"}, {"author": "Doe", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100108991546902?comment_id=10100109003962022&reply_comment_id=10100109029036772", "anchor": "fb-10100109003962022_10100109029036772", "service": "fb", "text": "→ my mom telling me \u2018there would be consequences for my actions\u2019 was one of the most confusing and stressful things I remember from being under 8. Fwiw", "timestamp": "1567234051"}, {"author": "Ruthan", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100108991546902?comment_id=10100109003962022&reply_comment_id=10100109053128492", "anchor": "fb-10100109003962022_10100109053128492", "service": "fb", "text": "→ My recollection of being told \"there will be consequences\" is that it usually meant \"everything would have been fine but an adult is going to mete out punishments.\"", "timestamp": "1567261876"}, {"author": "Jillian", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100108991546902?comment_id=10100109003962022&reply_comment_id=10100109171955362", "anchor": "fb-10100109003962022_10100109171955362", "service": "fb", "text": "→ It seems to me like the consequence here is being cold for a little bit and asking for a coat. It doesn't need to be severe to be a consequence, does it?", "timestamp": "1567346609"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100108991546902?comment_id=10100109003962022&reply_comment_id=10100109172439392", "anchor": "fb-10100109003962022_10100109172439392", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Jillian \"consequences\" can be used for anything from \"what naturally happened because of your choice\" to \"punishment because adults think you made the wrong choice\".", "timestamp": "1567346974"}, {"author": "Josh", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100108991546902?comment_id=10100109003962022&reply_comment_id=10100109176256742", "anchor": "fb-10100109003962022_10100109176256742", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Yeah, I think the move to talk about \"consequences\" is well-intentioned, but our kids seem to have mostly picked up that it means \"punishments\", and I feel like I have to keep explaining that no, that's not really it.", "timestamp": "1567348770"}, {"author": "Martha", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100108991546902?comment_id=10100109005628682", "anchor": "fb-10100109005628682", "service": "fb", "text": "I provide the wardrobe and the weather forecast. She comes up with the outfits, which are often delightfully fanciful and occasionally slightly embarrassing (to me; not to her, apparently). I do put my foot down about footwear, because I'm not willing to carry rain boots around until her sneakers are wet enough that she wants to change, nor will I let her get blisters by wearing leather boots on a 90-degree day.", "timestamp": "1567217166"}, {"author": "Alexandra", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100108991546902?comment_id=10100109030304232", "anchor": "fb-10100109030304232", "service": "fb", "text": "This!! My parents were pretty good about this. They kind of did the in between. Sometimes I\u2019d just be chilly because I\u2019d insisted on the wrong coat. But adults do that all the time too, so I don\u2019t get why parents are so insistent on their kids being so well coated all the time.", "timestamp": "1567239173"}, {"author": "Loren", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100108991546902?comment_id=10100109030304232&reply_comment_id=10100109040743312", "anchor": "fb-10100109030304232_10100109040743312", "service": "fb", "text": "→ If you catch a cold because you're not dressed properly and you're sick in bed as a result, it's a lot of stress and work for them. That's why!", "timestamp": "1567252747"}, {"author": "Alexandra", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100108991546902?comment_id=10100109030304232&reply_comment_id=10100109053198352", "anchor": "fb-10100109030304232_10100109053198352", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Loren we can\u2019t catch colds from being chilly without a virus. I was rarely sick. Most likely because we also did sanitize absolutely everything.", "timestamp": "1567261916"}, {"author": "Loren", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100108991546902?comment_id=10100109030304232&reply_comment_id=10100109053298152", "anchor": "fb-10100109030304232_10100109053298152", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Alexandra have gotten very sick from cold exposure so I know from first hand experience that it\u2019s entirely possible.", "timestamp": "1567262122"}, {"author": "Ruthan", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100108991546902?comment_id=10100109030304232&reply_comment_id=10100109059864992", "anchor": "fb-10100109030304232_10100109059864992", "service": "fb", "text": "→ It seems like there are plenty of things that can move the needle from \"happy agreeable kid\" to \"grumpy melting down kid\": fatigue, hunger, routine disruption, difficulty making oneself understood. It seems prudent not to add \"cold\" to the list (tho I think it's a lot harder for kids to get cold than adults remember.)", "timestamp": "1567266383"}, {"author": "Sarah", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100108991546902?comment_id=10100109118262962", "anchor": "fb-10100109118262962", "service": "fb", "text": "My teacher two cents is that, especially when the rule is extended to a large group (say 40+ kids...) it depends on how extreme things are. This time of year? Honestly, wear anything you like, but plus a hat, because sunburn is painful suffering for all involved, and has lasting health effects. Fall and spring? Ymmv, but generally if the group isn't swapping flu or strep or the yuck du jour, I usually have kids bring what they packed from home and layer up or down as they start playing. Some are really slow, cool blooded critters, and some are perpetual movement machines. Winter though? The whole shebang, sorry not sorry. They look like little sea stars, but they're healthier and happier as a group.", "timestamp": "1567295036"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100108991546902?comment_id=10100109118262962&reply_comment_id=10100109124964532", "anchor": "fb-10100109118262962_10100109124964532", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Sarah I think this isn't the same with large groups. With a very small number of kids you know very well you can (a) pay attention and make sure you're giving them choices that are at the right level for them and (b) expend a bit of extra effort to facilitate this. With a large number of kids you know less well neither (a) nor (b) are going to work and you need to fall back to more blanket rules", "timestamp": "1567300922"}, {"author": "Sarah", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100108991546902?comment_id=10100109118262962&reply_comment_id=10100109127783882", "anchor": "fb-10100109118262962_10100109127783882", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Jeff Kaufman yes, I intended to be clearer -- large groups of not your kids are very much different than your own two kids! What I meant more was that this context is also something they'll both likely encounter (and soon, for Lily!) so it can be helpful to prep them for those different expectations too", "timestamp": "1567303389"}, {"author": "Mira", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100108991546902?comment_id=10100109159220882", "anchor": "fb-10100109159220882", "service": "fb", "text": "My kids start choosing shorts over pants the first week in April... it takes a LOT for them to get cold. When we're out as a family, I let them pick what they bring to keep warm, unless frostbite is a risk, after I tell them the forecast. For school, I tell them they have to bring their winter gear when it's required by the school -- they can have a discussion with their teacher about wearing or not wearing it, but they have to have it available. I've found this has worked pretty well for us so far.", "timestamp": "1567335723"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100108991546902?comment_id=10100109159220882&reply_comment_id=10100109160004312", "anchor": "fb-10100109159220882_10100109160004312", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Mira that's a good point: for kids whose sense of cold isn't good enough to keep them from getting actually hurt, this won't work. This is similar to some issues we've had around eating with our kids and advice like \"no child ever starved in the presence of food\". On their own our kids just do (or at least did; they're doing much better now) eat fewer calories than they use and get smaller and smaller.", "timestamp": "1567336596"}, {"author": "Mira", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100108991546902?comment_id=10100109159220882&reply_comment_id=10100109160029262", "anchor": "fb-10100109159220882_10100109160029262", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Absolutely -- and this seems like a good balance for us of still letting them make choices and live with/learn from consequences while still setting some basic parameters to keep them safe :)", "timestamp": "1567336671"}, {"author": "Melissa", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100108991546902?comment_id=10100109159220882&reply_comment_id=10100109294928922", "anchor": "fb-10100109159220882_10100109294928922", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Funny story I tell too often. I'm out with 3 month old E to go to the store. I take his car seat out, snap it into the stroller, and am almost immediately accosted in the parking lot by some older woman telling me to \"cover that baby up\". E, of course, is perfectly happy in a onsie, a hat, and a light blanket. I refrain from becoming disrespectful or violent (old woman telling younger, unrelated mom how to parent... GRRR...) and attempt to explain how R and I *finally* figured out that being too hot was the thing that led to unexpected crying fits over and over. She will not be dissuaded. I smile and walk away with a happy chirping baby.", "timestamp": "1567435972"}, {"author": "Melissa", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100108991546902?comment_id=10100109159220882&reply_comment_id=10100109295018742", "anchor": "fb-10100109159220882_10100109295018742", "service": "fb", "text": "→ (btw- today Is E's birthday, so this was in mid december, about 35-40 degrees out. I was bundled up!)", "timestamp": "1567436053"}, {"author": "Mira", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100108991546902?comment_id=10100109159220882&reply_comment_id=10100109303202342", "anchor": "fb-10100109159220882_10100109303202342", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Melissa I remember you telling me about that when it happened!! <3", "timestamp": "1567439771"}, {"author": "Melissa", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100108991546902?comment_id=10100109159220882&reply_comment_id=10100109303401942", "anchor": "fb-10100109159220882_10100109303401942", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Mira Yeah, it feels like such a classic story in so many ways. I should just get over it already. ;-)", "timestamp": "1567439854"}]}