{"items": [{"author": "Hollis", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100101914698962?comment_id=10100101914868622", "anchor": "fb-10100101914868622", "service": "fb", "text": "I think this is true as long as the average contribution remains at or above the break-even point. If that doesn't happen, the dance obviously can't continue running that way.", "timestamp": "1563073619"}, {"author": "Ruthan", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100101914698962?comment_id=10100101914868622&reply_comment_id=10100101916430492", "anchor": "fb-10100101914868622_10100101916430492", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Unless the dance is turning away folks who would have paid more (due to capacity issues) or has high enough per-dancer marginal costs that folks at the $5 end are net negative, it seems to me that raising the minimum wouldn't necessarily solve this problem.", "timestamp": "1563074878"}, {"author": "Hollis", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100101914698962?comment_id=10100101914868622&reply_comment_id=10100101916570212", "anchor": "fb-10100101914868622_10100101916570212", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Ruthan I inferred (from Jeff's comment about how the $5-15 rate allows people who \"might not be able to afford our break-even rate\") that the break-even rate was higher than $5.", "timestamp": "1563074977"}, {"author": "BDan", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100101914698962?comment_id=10100101914868622&reply_comment_id=10100101916844662", "anchor": "fb-10100101914868622_10100101916844662", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Hollis The break even rate is dependent on the number of dancers who show up, though \u2014 it gets lower with more people. I think it\u2019s very uncommon for an additional dancer to be net negative, even if they are below the break even average.", "timestamp": "1563075156"}, {"author": "Ruthan", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100101914698962?comment_id=10100101914868622&reply_comment_id=10100101916864622", "anchor": "fb-10100101914868622_10100101916864622", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Right. I am fairly optimistic about dancers mostly paying what they can. If that is the case, then people who pay less than the break even rate would otherwise not come, thereby paying nothing, thereby reducing overall revenue for that evening.", "timestamp": "1563075195"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100101914698962?comment_id=10100101914868622&reply_comment_id=10100101916889572", "anchor": "fb-10100101914868622_10100101916889572", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Hollis BIDA's break-even rate is about $9 these days. But since ~all our costs are fixed costs an additional $5-paying person still improves our financial situation.", "timestamp": "1563075222"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100101914698962?comment_id=10100101914868622&reply_comment_id=10100101917054242", "anchor": "fb-10100101914868622_10100101917054242", "service": "fb", "text": "→ \"high enough per-dancer marginal costs\"
I have trouble thinking of a situation where this would be the case for an evening of dancing, but an example of this would be something like a Pinewoods session that doesn't usually sell out. As a residential dance camp the sessions pay substantial per-person fees to the venue.", "timestamp": "1563075363"}, {"author": "BDan", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100101914698962?comment_id=10100101914868622&reply_comment_id=10100101917059232", "anchor": "fb-10100101914868622_10100101917059232", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Which is to say that the break even number is solely determined by the total take for the night; 20 people paying $15 each is just as bad as 60 people paying $5 each.", "timestamp": "1563075373"}, {"author": "Hollis", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100101914698962?comment_id=10100101914868622&reply_comment_id=10100101917283782", "anchor": "fb-10100101914868622_10100101917283782", "service": "fb", "text": "→ (I should state that I'm explicitly in favor of sliding scales) I think you're talking about a piecewise approach on a per-dancer basis and I'm talking about the aggregate of all dancers accumulated over time. I agree with the points you're all making.", "timestamp": "1563075406"}, {"author": "Ruthan", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100101914698962?comment_id=10100101914868622&reply_comment_id=10100101917298752", "anchor": "fb-10100101914868622_10100101917298752", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Jeff I couldn't think of one either, other than a fleeting vision of gold flake coated Klondike bars. :)", "timestamp": "1563075421"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100101914698962?comment_id=10100101914868622&reply_comment_id=10100101917318712", "anchor": "fb-10100101914868622_10100101917318712", "service": "fb", "text": "→ BDan well, except that a dance with 60 people paying $5 each is probably in a much better position to sort out its finances and get back on its feet", "timestamp": "1563075430"}, {"author": "opted out", "source_link": "#", "anchor": "unknown", "service": "unknown", "text": "→ this user has requested that their comments not be shown here", "timestamp": "1563083052"}, {"author": "Gianna", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100101914698962?comment_id=10100101915053252", "anchor": "fb-10100101915053252", "service": "fb", "text": "Really great reflection on the benefits of a sliding scale. Thanks. Your thoughts on it are somewhat similar to my experience with pledging a financial commitment to any organization you care about: rarely do people show up so invested that they're willing to give a lot of money at the outset. Commitment and willingness to pay or invest grows over time, in conjunction with connection and relationship. We did not start out committing a large amount of money to institutions or causes we now contribute significantly to, and if that has 3 been the bar for admission, so to speak, at the outset there's a large chance we would've ended up opting out all together. This isn't quite the same, but there are similarities.", "timestamp": "1563073730"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100101914698962?comment_id=10100101918501342", "anchor": "fb-10100101918501342", "service": "fb", "text": "When BIDA most recently revised our sliding scale [1] I wanted to get something like this on our sign, but \"$5: low income or marginal attendee\" doesn't really communicate this well.
[1] https://blog.bidadance.org/2018/01/raising-our-prices.html", "timestamp": "1563075574"}, {"author": "Nick", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100101914698962?comment_id=10100101919584172", "anchor": "fb-10100101919584172", "service": "fb", "text": "I really like how YDW communicates their sliding scale, and at least when I last attended BIDA (admittedly a while ago) I didn't see something similar. I always thought a sign that said something like:
$5 - Subsidized
$10 - At Cost
$15 - Help 1 Dancer Attend Tonight
$20 - Help 2 Dancers Attend Tonight
Would be nice and also help people understand the direct benefit of giving a little more.", "timestamp": "1563076320"}, {"author": "Bill", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100101914698962?comment_id=10100101919584172&reply_comment_id=10100101942478292", "anchor": "fb-10100101919584172_10100101942478292", "service": "fb", "text": "→ This is an excellent plan, because it leaves the money question totally to the dancer - who as Jeff points out may have various reasons for choosing their price. The dollar prices don't even need to be accurate for tonight (\"dynamically updating\") as long as they are reasonable. If the dance doesn't quite break even over several sessions, then a new sign can be made such as $5, $12.00 at cost, $19, $24. The least affluent dancer can afford $5 (more fun than a gourmet coffee!) and the more affluent dancers can take the cue to increase their donations (more fun than giving to Red Cross!).", "timestamp": "1563104266"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100101914698962?comment_id=10100101919584172&reply_comment_id=10100101949174872", "anchor": "fb-10100101919584172_10100101949174872", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Nick I think that's a good fit for an event like YDW that is capacity constrained. With an event that isn't, like BIDA, a dancer who pays $5 isn't exactly subsidized. Like, they're still helping cover our overall costs, and if they didn't come we'd be in a worse position financially.", "timestamp": "1563109903"}, {"author": "Peter", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100101914698962?comment_id=10100101922144042", "anchor": "fb-10100101922144042", "service": "fb", "text": "I have been trying to visualize and create a graphic for our sliding scale dances which shows an evening's expenses, with little person graphics showing how many dancers are needed to pay them. ('Hall rental: $x = y dancers, sound, performers, etc). This is complicated by a sliding scale, and perhaps the folks reading this include the ones to help me overcome this. Today I was teetering on the edge of a pie chart showing expenses, with concentric circles superimposed with some number of stick figures on an inner ring showing # of dancers needed to meet each expense IF each paid $15, and an outer circle showing how many dancers needed at $5.
Not sure I have either the skill or the software to pull it off; anybody here had success with such a thing?", "timestamp": "1563078036"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100101914698962?comment_id=10100101922144042&reply_comment_id=10100101950362492", "anchor": "fb-10100101922144042_10100101950362492", "service": "fb", "text": "→ https://www.jefftk.com/.../bida-compensation-at-various... has some graphs kind of like what you're talking about, but I don't know how clear they are", "timestamp": "1563111093"}, {"author": "Hollis", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100101914698962?comment_id=10100101922947432", "anchor": "fb-10100101922947432", "service": "fb", "text": "The only answer is a dynamically-updating payment scale (maybe presented on a tablet or other screen) that amortizes the fixed and dynamic costs of the dance over the actual number of dancers who've already paid and their actual payments. For the first person in the door, the break-even cost is $n, where $n is the total costs of running the dance... update from there as we go. Sliding scale of $5-$n should cover it. :)", "timestamp": "1563079062"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100101914698962?comment_id=10100101922947432&reply_comment_id=10100101950412392", "anchor": "fb-10100101922947432_10100101950412392", "service": "fb", "text": "→ I'd feel pretty intimidated as a newcomer showing up early if I saw \"sliding scale, $5-$1100\" ;)", "timestamp": "1563111141"}, {"author": "Jillian", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100101914698962?comment_id=10100101922947432&reply_comment_id=10100102075197322", "anchor": "fb-10100101922947432_10100102075197322", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Don't you want to incentivize showing up early, not disincentivize it?", "timestamp": "1563196972"}, {"author": "Kiran", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100101914698962?comment_id=10100101926290732", "anchor": "fb-10100101926290732", "service": "fb", "text": "This is worth saying. Thanks.
Back when the Thursday contra moved to Concord (and raised its prices again) people without cars started pointing out that with $5-8 in transit prices, and the admission, the price was close to $20. At the time, I suggested to both Thursday and Monday contras that they should offer free admission with an MBTA ticket, precisely because they wouldn't be getting anything from those people anyway, but more dancers would make the dance much more appealing for everyone else.
Of course this idea went nowhere, because the idea that something we agree is awesome might still not be worth the price to a particular person was incomprehensible to them. And that doesn't take into account that many contras are just not as awesome as their organizers would like to believe.", "timestamp": "1563081091"}, {"author": "Henry", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100101914698962?comment_id=10100101942273702", "anchor": "fb-10100101942273702", "service": "fb", "text": "The sliding scale is nice when for some reason or other you just don't happen to have 15.00 in cash in your wallet. I generally pay the higher rate, but if I happened upon a dance that cost me 50.00 to park and maybe another 30 or 40 in gas, I sometimes pay the suggested adult rate of 10.00.", "timestamp": "1563103795"}, {"author": "Ruthan", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100101914698962?comment_id=10100101942273702&reply_comment_id=10100101996994042", "anchor": "fb-10100101942273702_10100101996994042", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Is $50 to park a regular occurrence?!", "timestamp": "1563136899"}, {"author": "Henry", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100101914698962?comment_id=10100101942273702&reply_comment_id=10100101997782462", "anchor": "fb-10100101942273702_10100101997782462", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Not too often. Mostly in NYC", "timestamp": "1563137475"}, {"author": "Henry", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100101914698962?comment_id=10100101942273702&reply_comment_id=10100101997917192", "anchor": "fb-10100101942273702_10100101997917192", "service": "fb", "text": "→ It is more common for it to cost me 30.00 for gas to get to a dance", "timestamp": "1563137602"}, {"author": "Perry", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100101914698962?comment_id=10100101942503242", "anchor": "fb-10100101942503242", "service": "fb", "text": "How do we reconcile making dances affordable to everyone with the need for musicians to be paid good rates?", "timestamp": "1563104309"}, {"author": "Henry", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100101914698962?comment_id=10100101942503242&reply_comment_id=10100101943635972", "anchor": "fb-10100101942503242_10100101943635972", "service": "fb", "text": "→ The more people attend, the better the dances are and more money comes in.", "timestamp": "1563105782"}, {"author": "Perry", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100101914698962?comment_id=10100101942503242&reply_comment_id=10100101944040162", "anchor": "fb-10100101942503242_10100101944040162", "service": "fb", "text": "→ That is a good point.", "timestamp": "1563106251"}, {"author": "Lisa", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100101914698962?comment_id=10100101942852542", "anchor": "fb-10100101942852542", "service": "fb", "text": "Kelly a topic for our next lunch", "timestamp": "1563104784"}, {"author": "Kelly", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100101914698962?comment_id=10100101942852542&reply_comment_id=10100101991245562", "anchor": "fb-10100101942852542_10100101991245562", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Lisa I like 5 to 20, to keep folks open to the idea.", "timestamp": "1563133534"}, {"author": "Bil", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100101914698962?comment_id=10100101944419402", "anchor": "fb-10100101944419402", "service": "fb", "text": "As a well-paid researcher at MIT, I got a 50% discount on the T. I took it, of course, but I felt irritated at the logic. I'm looking at the kid working at McDonalds, who could really use it.", "timestamp": "1563106634"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100101914698962?comment_id=10100101944419402&reply_comment_id=10100101951240732", "anchor": "fb-10100101944419402_10100101951240732", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Bil was that a 50% discount from the MBTA, or from MIT? I'm not aware of any discounts the MBTA gives to graduate students.
Here's their current list: https://www.mbta.com/fares/reduced", "timestamp": "1563111480"}, {"author": "Jillian", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100101914698962?comment_id=10100101944419402&reply_comment_id=10100102075277162", "anchor": "fb-10100101944419402_10100102075277162", "service": "fb", "text": "→ Most likely that's actually MIT paying half the cost.", "timestamp": "1563197060"}, {"author": "Martha", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100101914698962?comment_id=10100101947777672", "anchor": "fb-10100101947777672", "service": "fb", "text": "I think it would be worth having a different sign at gate for family dances. Given that none of us was staying for the evening dance, I wasn't sure what a fair price would be for my family of three. $45 seemed like maybe more than we were expected to pay for one hour of dancing. I think I wound up paying $30. If I'd been planning to stay for the evening I would have paid more.", "timestamp": "1563108299"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100101914698962?comment_id=10100101947777672&reply_comment_id=10100101951779652", "anchor": "fb-10100101947777672_10100101951779652", "service": "fb", "text": "→ We do usually put out a \"kids $3\" sign at family dances, but I agree this is tricky. Things in the mix:
* We don't want it to seem so expensive that people don't come
* We do need to cover the extra hour of hall rental, caller, and open band leader (the cost of a family dance is $205, assuming we're sticking it onto a regular dance we'd have anyway)
* If someone comes intending to stay for only the family dance and then ends up staying for the evening dance that's great, so we don't want to have a point where we say \"ok everyone, now pay again or leave\"
Possibly the best answer is just to put up a $3-$8 sliding scale sign, and then if people ask about paying again for the evening dance we say \"if you'd like to we'd appreciate that\" but not push it?", "timestamp": "1563111872"}, {"author": "Katie", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100101914698962?comment_id=10100101952453302", "anchor": "fb-10100101952453302", "service": "fb", "text": "I don't have time to read through the comments but I'll share one experience. When some of my local dances started to offer a sliding scale, after being 10 bucks for years, I found it fun to sit at the admission table in order to not only collect money but stories. Most people hand me a 10 and a smile. People who gave more would surprisingly often say something like, \"I have a good job; I want to make sure this dance keeps going; thanks for the suggestion.\" I like the idea, very much, for dances that aren't overfilled, to extend that to $5 admission, too. And I would never ask someone why. I don't care what they are wearing or what my assumptions are about someone, I respect their decisions.", "timestamp": "1563112508"}, {"author": "Jeff Kaufman", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100101914698962?comment_id=10100101952598012", "anchor": "fb-10100101952598012", "service": "fb", "text": "\"if I had to pay $10 or $15 I'd come less often\" is a valid reason to pay $5", "timestamp": "1563112718"}, {"author": "Katie", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100101914698962?comment_id=10100101952598012&reply_comment_id=10100101953341522", "anchor": "fb-10100101952598012_10100101953341522", "service": "fb", "text": "→ I agree 100%.", "timestamp": "1563113061"}, {"author": "Katie", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100101914698962?comment_id=10100101952598012&reply_comment_id=10100101953481242", "anchor": "fb-10100101952598012_10100101953481242", "service": "fb", "text": "→ I also offer volunteering.", "timestamp": "1563113070"}, {"author": "Lauren", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100101914698962?comment_id=10100101971849432", "anchor": "fb-10100101971849432", "service": "fb", "text": "I've heard an organizer say, \"Make the band, the caller, the venue amazing, and it doesn't matter the price! They'll come!\"
But I sure didn't. For people on a tight budget, one is constantly making decisions about wants vs. necessities. There's always going to be something you want to do, but really should be careful about indulging, as you can't afford it.
I've also heard folks who collect money at the door say things like, \"If they can afford that Starbucks cup, they can afford full price!\" Which is very similar to judging the poor for owning smartphones, etc.
(I was a maid for my income while doing an unpaid internship for several years, and getting a smartphone completely changed my cleaning business. My wealthy clients had been using theirs for years, upset that I didn't email them back immediately, etc. Even though my clients knew what my job was, they didn't care. They wanted the convenience they could personally afford.)
My overall reflection is, we don't know the financial situation of our attendees. And it is a choice to either relinquish one's privacy to ask for flexibility of price, which of course most will not do, or the sliding scale can do that.
And those who can't handle seeing the Starbucks cup while accepting sliding scale at the door, perhaps they are not in the ideal volunteer position for their personality.", "timestamp": "1563122627"}, {"author": "Lauren", "source_link": "https://www.facebook.com/jefftk/posts/10100101914698962?comment_id=10100101971849432&reply_comment_id=10100101971974182", "anchor": "fb-10100101971849432_10100101971974182", "service": "fb", "text": "→ I once went to a dance in Chicago which had a \"no one turned away due to cost\" in parentheses under their sliding scale. And it worked due to the personalities of the volunteers at the table. They could handle those conversations and quick phrases like, \"Hey, so long as the talent is well-paid and we can cover our bills, we don't want anyone to miss out!\"", "timestamp": "1563122757"}]}